WHO ARE GOD’S ELECT, THE ELECTION OF GRACE?

Unfortunately, many teach that any Christian is God’s elect. Some even say that every Christian was destined to become one. Foolish to the Nth degree. There are so many questions one can ask that would tear that belief down. I’ve had debates with these people and it does no good. One even said to me “what you’re not understanding is this is about dividing the sheep from the goats, not turning goats into sheep.” If that’s true, then this life means nothing. The division already exists. Why then condemn those who cannot make the right choice no matter what they do? Unfathomable how people can believe some of the things they do. Jesus also when challenged why He hung around with unsavory characters said that a man having 99 sheep then loses one of them, after retrieving that lost sheep he was greatly happy. The reason was he already had the other sheep, but he got back the one he lost.

God’s elect doesn’t mean man’s elect. God’s elect “εκλεκτός” (ek-lek-TOHS) in Greek means God’s chosen. How can a man that chose Christ say that means that God chose him? How is a man making his election to God equal to God making His election of that man? Obviously the two aren’t congruent.

There are two types of God’s elect. There is God’s elect race, which are the Jews. Then there is the election of grace, which at least many of them aren’t Jewish. In Romans 11:7, Paul explains that Israel has not obtained that which he seeks for but the election has obtained it. Earlier on Paul explains who the real elect are. He reiterates a conversation between Elijah and God in 1st Kings clearly in the context of the election of grace. God explains He has kept seven thousand men (and women) who have not bowed their knee to Ba’al. There are different words used in 1st Kings and Romans 11 describing how God has “reserved” these people, and the most congruent meaning that ties the original Hebrew and Greek is the term “left back”. So God says that He has left back, or reserved seven thousand men in Israel. Then Paul adds on his own that there is a remnant according to the election of grace. Well, with him saying that it contends greatly traditional teaching of who the election of grace are. One has to ask themselves, how does God leave back or reserve a person? Can a person who has lived in the human flesh be called “reserved” or “left back” from God’s point of view? If God has left back a person, then that person has not lived yet.

Those who have not bowed their knee to Ba’al doesn’t necessarily mean Ba’al in the terms that men have come to know this pagan deity. He was much more than just a pagan deity of the planet of Venus. God knew that. Elijah knew that. I will not explain what Ba’al truly was. That’s another lesson way down the road.

Those seven thousand are reserved for the last generation to live. When else would God reserve them? That doesn’t necessarily mean there are seven thousand total who are the election of grace. There were some that were dispersed throughout this age, hence what Paul meant by saying there was a remnant according to the election of grace. It’s just that seven thousand of them are reserved for a specific time. Those people weren’t actually in Israel at the time. They will be. Remember, even Jesus said to His disciples that there will be some standing here that will not taste of death until the kingdom of God has come to Earth. Obviously there aren’t people over two thousand years old on Earth right now. He meant there will be some on Earth that will not die until the end of this age. Likewise, those seven thousand in the final generation will be in Israel at some point. Perhaps several times.

As it is also explained in Romans 11:6, God did not choose these people for any work they’ve done in this life. Faith is a work. Showing faith is a good work. Being unfaithful is a bad work. If they didn’t bow to “Ba’al” in this life, which shows their faith, isn’t that a work? If it is a work, then they couldn’t be chosen for this work because they were chosen by grace. This should be conclusive that God chose His elect before this life. This should also prove that those that didn’t bow to “Ba’al” didn’t show their faith in this life, also meaning there is something more to the picture to Ba’al than what we’ve thought of him to be. Now there are those called by grace, but not all answer their call. Every Christian becomes one by grace, but Jesus Himself gives many examples of those who fail from the ten virgins who all know the coming of the groom, to the three servants given talents.

Further proof of this is what God told Jeremiah. God told Jeremiah that He knew him before he was in the womb. God said before Jeremiah was out of his mother’s belly He sanctified him and ordained him to be a prophet. This means that God chose Jeremiah to be His prophet without having done one thing upon Earth in the human flesh. Isn’t that what Paul explains also in Romans 11:6? That God does not choose anyone for any work they have done, or else it would not be called grace.  Not for one thing they did in this life did God choose His elect. So what did Jeremiah do to prove his worth to God? God isn’t going to create a million souls and say randomly to the next one He created “okay, you’ll be My prophet”, then create another million and repeat. Jeremiah must have proven his worth for God to choose him to be a prophet. What did he or didn’t he do? He did not bow his knee to Ba’al or anything like him before he was put in the human flesh.

How many people did Jesus speak to during His life? Many multitudes. How did He speak to them? In parables. Matthew 13:10-16 reveals corroboration of the spirit of slumber given to everyone outside the election of grace. The disciples asked Jesus why does He speak to the multitudes in parables. He said because they don’t have eyes to see or ears to hear. Isn’t that what is written later in Romans 11? Weren’t those multitudes Christians? Christians, but didn’t have it in them to have that understanding that God’s elect did. Those people had greater faith than just about anyone here on Earth now. They saw Jesus heal people. Some were even healed by Him. They heard Him speak. Whose faith on Earth now could be stronger than theirs? Still, Jesus could only speak to them in parables about the kingdom. Jesus then revealed to the disciples that they do have eyes and ears, so He was allowed to reveal the secrets of the kingdom to them. They were some of the elect dispersed throughout the age.

For many are called to be at the wedding between Jesus and His bride, which is our creation who were faithful, but few are chosen. Obviously not all that will be at this wedding will be chosen to be there. Also there will be many that were not called to be at this wedding. It says many are called but few are chosen. Not nearly all are called to be there, but the rest are chosen. Don’t be afraid to ask questions that even go against your belief system. Romans 11 explains who the real elect are, and it’s obvious it’s not every Christian like many believe. Romans 11 is the most difficult thing written in the entire Bible to understand to its fullest extent. Inside it tells you why even. The rest were blinded. Only the election of grace do not have the spirit of slumber. God has given everyone else a ceiling of understanding. Sadly though, far too many have put their own ceiling upon themselves. It’s written that it takes the sounding of the last trump before the mystery is gone. I think that says everything about the faith of men, don’t you?

About these ads

38 comments on “WHO ARE GOD’S ELECT, THE ELECTION OF GRACE?

  1. Roy Wolfe says:

    Are you saying there was another world age before this one.Were we in spiritual bodies? The things done in that age were remembered by GOD. There fore Jacob I loved and Esau I hated.

    • Jesse Norman II says:

      Yes, I’m saying there was another age before this one. There is no denying Romans 8, Jeremiah 1:5, and Romans 11. If you look at the 6th day creation, God said “let Us make man in Our image.” Subtly He was saying “This time, let Us make man in Our image.” Our creation already existed and called us “man”. We lived in a previous age that maybe was not meant to be an age at all. An age is a period of time that has both a beginning and an end. Satan is named Death for a reason. Were we in spiritual bodies in the last age? I’d have to say no. We were in a different flesh. While we were waiting between flesh, we were in spiritual bodies.

    • Jose says:

      The Gods elect are those who made a stand against Satan in the first world age and they are ready to do the same in this end times. They were chossen before the fundation of this world, catapult in the greek.

  2. Andrew says:

    So does this define Calvinism?

    • Jesse Norman II says:

      No it doesn’t. Predestination is only for the very few. This life would mean nothing if everything was predestinated for everyone. At the same time, there is no denying Romans 8:30..

      • allen says:

        Only gods elect are deprived of a bit of free will. They are chosen to witness before antichrist. 144,000 to be exact. Doesnt make them better or worse, this is just their destiny, they did not rebel in the first earth age when the seven thousand fallen angels did. They decided to obey god, as they will against antichrist!

      • Jesse Norman says:

        Actually the 144000 will all be of the tribes of Israel, excluding Dan. As Paul wrote of the 7000 elect in Romans 11, those aren’t Israelites. Then he said that God hasn’t cast away His people, for he too is an Israelite. The reserved elect are at least mostly Gentiles and are the church of Philadelphia who won’t be here for the hour of temptation. The 144000 Jews listed in Revelation will be.

  3. gb says:

    is there a church that teaches the truth about satan, kenites , I have not found one yet, I miss having fellow christians to worship with. I haven’t found but one person that knows the truth.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      I don’t know of any but Shepherd’s Chapel, but they’re wrong about too many things. They’re pretty good about the subjects you write of.

    • Aaron John masias says:

      I am here. I can’t help anyone. The veil is real. Some can’t see but believe they do. He will gather us.

    • Jose says:

      Yes there is, sheperd chapel in gravete ark. Pastor arnold murray

  4. gb says:

    what things are they wrong about, I do listen to Shepherd’chapel. . I’m very interested in the truth.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      Well one thing about the Kenites Shepherd’s Chapel says they cannot grow plants because of what is written of Cain not being able to. It doesn’t say anywhere that his descendants also had this curse. It’s just an assumption presented as fact. They’re wrong about the tribulation being shortened to five months. The days are shortened only for the elect by five months. The last five months is the hour of temptation. The elect, also known as the church of Philadelphia are the only ones who won’t be here for that hour. I have no idea how they came up with that one since the days are numbered in Revelation which was written after Jesus when He said “for the elect’s sake the days shall be shortened”. Adam was not created on the “eighth day”. If you look at what is written of when Adam was created, the plants were already created. This is clearly just going back to the sixth day and speaking of a specific man God created.

      • Jose says:

        God put a mark in cain, and that mark is still present in his offspring till this day, they may own farms but some else do the planting for them. And the adam of the garden of eden was created diferent than the first adam, which were hunters and fishers, and the new adam was to keep the garden, a husbanman, and with eve had the seed from umbilical cord to umbilical cord christ will come till mary. And the time of the antichrist will be five months from may to september, the time of the locoust, and if christ will not shortend the time not even the very elect will be save, thas how good he is.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        I don’t see that the tribulation period lasts for five months. In Revelation, John wrote that the tribulation will be comprised of two different three and a half year periods, and he wrote this after Jesus spoke of the shortening of the days. It also doesn’t say that Kenites, Cain’s offspring, would not be able to grow plants. That curse was given to Cain alone. I am not saying that curse doesn’t exist this day, but to assume it still exists is only an assumption.

      • I says:

        If is not five months how long do you think it will last. Christ shortenend the days otherwisw no flesh will be save, document it.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        Jesus said for the elect’s sake, the days are shortened. This is done as He says in Revelation 3:10. He didn’t say the days will be shortened for anyone else. That is another assumption made by men. The elect-the Church of Philadelphia will be kept from the hour of temptation. That is how the days are shortened for them, and only for them.

  5. Aaron John masias says:

    I am saved therefore I believe. Few will ever know this. It’s almost time.

  6. Jose says:

    Just think, 7000 are the number of the fallen angels that comes with satan when he is kick out of heaven, to earth and woe to the unhabitans of the earth cause the devil knows that he has but a short time, and when they kill the two witness in the strets of jerusalem the moment they resurrect the 7000 that satan broutht with him will die.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      There are more than seven thousand angels who fell with Satan. Remember, John in Revelation said that the dragon (Satan) took up a third part of the stars in heaven. These are the fallen, so there were more than seven thousand nephilim.

      When the two witnesses leave and the seven thousand die, there is a period of time where Satan and the nephilim are still here. That is the hour of temptation. That is the five month period John was referring to. Five months between the beginning of the hour of temptation and the end of the age.

  7. David says:

    Awesome explanation, I love this and completely agree I’ve spent a lot of hours study with a hard question, can we anyone be in gods elect? Only 7,000 are set aside out of 7 billion people so it’s not likely I’m one of those 7,000 but I’ve put a lot of work into learning the truth, if I’m not one of those 7,000 does that mean the antichrist will fool me? Or can anyone worthy beyond the 7,000 take part in gods elect? Thank you I search hard for this answer.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      I believe all but seven thousand will be fooled for at least a moment. For those who are prepared and humble as you seem to be, that moment will be a fleeting moment. I look at what Jesus said of the church of Smyrna in Revelation 2:8-11, and even though they are not of the elect, their righteousness can’t be questioned. Keep working hard and keep your humility. Who knows? You may find out you’re one of the elect afterall. If not, do not let it impede your devotion to Him. Be motivated by it so you don’t fail Him. May God bless you on your journey. I’ll pray for you.

      • David says:

        Thank you ill pray for you as well. I’ve been studying with Shepherds Chapel and he teaches no one gets hurt it’s basically all spiritual deception on the 7 trumps which I do agree it’s not like doomsday movies it’s the deception. However at the end of the Revelation chapter 9 verse 20 it says and the rest of these that were not killed by these plagues repented not. That’s makes no sense if no one is litterally not getting hurt as he teaches. But the reason I believe his teaching is it keeps saying 1/3 which is referring to 1/3 of the children that pulled away before is pulling away again being deceived. But that would mean the people that did not follow antichrist were not repenting of sins. Hopefully you have seen his teaching on this and can clear this up for me, another small thing bugging me for an answer. Thank you.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        Well Satan and his angels don’t hurt anyone, but they will have those on their side kill on their behalf. Again I refer you to what Jesus said of the church of Smyrna, and He told them to be faithful unto death. These will be people put on trial for their faith in Him, so many of them will be killed by someone. John also said he saw the souls of those who were beheaded for their witness in Jesus Christ. The plagues also do kill men because it is written quite clearly they do, whether it be the star called Wormwood or the rider of the red horse.

        These plagues will be quite theatrical, for a lack of a better term, because God wants to be the sword that divides. Those who have faith in Him will see these things and make themselves right for Him, but those who do not will just accuse believers of twisting scripture to fit the events. If you look at what Moses and the Israelites saw, as well as what Elijah did with the authority given to him, they were quite theatrical. The works Jesus performed would be incredible in anyone’s eyes, yet those of Satan still used those miracles to accuse Him. I wouldn’t worry about how some people would react if things are so obvious, like Murray has said, because I accept the hardness of men’s hearts. Less than forty days after making a covenant with God that they would not make gods for themselves, they urged Aaron to make a golden calf to be their god. This is after they witnessed the ten plagues, the dividing of the Red Sea, and the sweetening of bitter waters. And these were believers, not those of Satan.

  8. David says:

    Why does Murray choose to teach that the plagues during the 6 trumps don’t kill men? He seems very smart and is convincing plus he understands the price of teaching falsely. The points you bring up are much clearer. I think shepherds chapel does a good job it just doesn’t always add up. Another question is satan comes at the 6th seal 6th trump 6th vial, but why on the first vial are people with the mark getting sores? Along with the 5th vial satans throne and kingdom was thrown into darkness?

    • Jesse Norman says:

      I have respect for Murray, but he was also one that looked to validate his preconceived notions. There is teaching falsely and there are mistakes. A man in his position- a teacher who is not of the elect, will make mistakes and teach them. He, unlike most I have seen, didn’t teach for profit.

      The sixth vial isn’t Satan coming, but his armies marching towards Israel to meet at Megiddo. The vials are after the seven trumps chronilogically. At the sounding of the seventh trump, the mystery of God is finished (Rev 10:7). That will begin the hour of temptation, which will be the last five months of the tribulation and age. Those who took the mark of the beast are sealed with their doom. This is why the first vial has those who took the mark become marked by God. The fifth vial is just the darkness of Satan’s kingdom and the knowledge of the fallen that their time for punishment is just days away. The angels, including the fallen have incorruptible flesh. This does not mean the flesh isn’t able to sin, but decay. Imagine being able to feel pain but not die. Imagine knowing you will be put into lava, feeling the intense heat forever without melting away. This is their fate.

      • David says:

        Thank you, you have really cleared some things up for me. I actually had to read the book of Daniel 5 times before I understood it so your time means a lot to me. Hopefully if we all live righteously as possible, repent, we will be protected similar to daniel and his 3 companions and recieve a quick death (free trip to heaven) and not suffer after our trial. You seem very smart and I’m curious as where did you go to learn everything you know? That’s all my questions for now tho hopefully if I post in the future your around. May god bless you.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        Thanks for the compliments. I am a hundred percent self-taught. I don’t belong to any denomination either. I am as I put on the site- one of the elect. May God bless you too. Thanks for the blessing.

  9. David says:

    In the 3rd trump it says a great star falls from heaven. In Luke 10:18 Jesus tells his disciples I beheld satan as lighting fall from heaven. In revelation 17:15 we learn the waters are the symbolic meaning for people. So back to the 3rd trump it says a great star falls and it’s call wormwood and the waters are made bitter because of it. Doesn’t this mean satans lies have came to earth to make people bitter such as the rapture? Spirutial lies to take people’s souls? Or have I missed something?

    • Jesse Norman says:

      Well “wormwood” in the Ukrainian language is “chernobyl”. The water in Revelation 17 are people, but more specifically people of the ten nations that make war with the Lamb. The star that falls and makes waters bitter could be symbolic, but I doubt it. The reason I say that is because the fifth trump is the fall of Satan and his angels onto earth. That was also described as a star that fell from heaven.

      • David says:

        Ok, another question is when the two witnesses are raised from the dead and 7,000 die that people were scared but then gave glory to god, could that be when the church of smyrna wakes up and stand trial? But also if two people are raised from the dead and go to heaven why would people follow satan claiming to be god still? Isn’t that a dead give away? And why when the vials are poured like the first one with the sores don’t they go to satan who they believe is god and ask him to heal them? I don’t see how it adds up people would have to be extremely dumb.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        The church of Smyrna will have had a firm footing by then. It will be after that where they will be imprisoned and stand trial.

        In one of my earlier comments to you, I pointed out how those of Satan used the miracles Jesus performed to accuse Him with. They never saw these things before, but evil will always find a way to hate good, no matter how incredible the works are. Look at the world today. Good and evil have been flipped in reverse roles. When a person takes the mark of the beast, then that is it for them.

        It doesn’t say the people don’t ask Satan to heal them, but Satan could never take away something God has brought forth unless God lets him.

  10. David says:

    I have a question as to who are the Kenites. I believe satan started his own seed in the garden and that Jesus taught this. But how are they separated as god said he would separated the two seeds and who are they and what are we to do about it, how are we to recognize them? Are they the ones setting up a one world political system and were supposed to be watchmen of this? Thank you again for everything.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      I recommend you read my post “The Definitive Work On Kenites, Cain, And The Seed Of Satan”. It has pretty much everything you’re asking about in there. Glad to help.

  11. David says:

    Why do people blaspheme god during the 4th and 5th vial if they think god himself is here on earth? From what you’ve explained to me before is it by the time the vials come around it’s to late and they already know they have been fooled. The vials are during the 5 months correct? I couldn’t find a teaching over revelation unless I missed it.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      Yes, it is too late for them. Once they take the mark of the beast, their futures are set. One interesting thing to point out is the Book of Life. Jesus talks about blotting names out of the book. In order to blot out the name, it must first be written in it. As for them blaspheming the name of God when they believe Satan is god and is on earth goes, this is after the mystery of God is finished. Revelation 10:7 says the sounding of the last trump removes this mystery. All will know who is God and that last five months will be the great trial for this creation, outside of those who took the mark. This is what Jesus spoke of when He said those who look to save their lives will lose them, but those who lose them for His name’s sake will find life everlasting. People will basically have to decide if they are willing to die for Him, even if that decision doesn’t necessarily come to them.

      • David says:

        At the 7th trump were all changed into spiritual bodies and are angels again. How are the vials poured out and the 5 month period after were all in the spiritual body? I’ve read revelation as if it jump to different times rather than in order maybe that’s a mistake.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        The seventh trump isn’t about being put into spiritual bodies. For there to be an hour of temptation, one must know who God is. On earth, the seventh trump is the realization that the Christian God is the one, true God. In heaven, the seventh trump is where people who are in spiritual bodies are put in incorruptible flesh bodies. This is what it means in 1st Thes. where it says “the dead in Christ shall rise first”. The dead in Christ are those who are faithful to God but are no longer living. The rising is becoming alive once again, and the incorruptible flesh means undecaying.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s