Some people hear “Lucifer” and “Satan” and just think those are the names of the Devil and don’t even question why there are different names for him. There is a huge difference between the two names and when they were his names. When taking all of this in with the meaning of his names, it can provide you a whole lot of wisdom about not just him, but about us and why we are here. That’s a trip for you to take if you decide to though. I cannot go any further than where this post ends.

In the KJV and other translated versions of the Bible, they translated the word “Lucifer”. Lucifer in the original Hebrew was actually Helel (hay-LALE). If you open a Hebrew OT, it would read in the Hebrew “Helel”, not Lucifer. The reason why it is written as Lucifer is because the authors of the Vulgate and the KJV translated the name. The Catholic church translated the Hebrew Old Testament and Greek New Testament into Latin with the Vulgate. The KJV is the English translation of the Vulgate. There was some wisdom to the translation with the next line “son of the morning.” The definition of it is “brightness”, “lightbearer”, but it’s also the Latin word for the “morning star”. Only one time does the Bible mention the word Helel, or “Lucifer”. That is in Isaiah 14:12. There’s a reason for that. It mentions what Helel’s crime was, in which he was banished from God and sentenced to everlasting torture. It says Helel exalted himself above all of the other stars of God and tried to be the god of the congregation. Helel was Satan’s name before he committed his crime.

Satan in the Hebrew means “opponent, adversary” and sometimes in the OT it can mean “persecute”. There’s a reason for that too. Satan is what he became after his crime. He was the morning star, and now he’s the adversary and has and will persecute our creation. Since the days of Adam, he has been known as Satan. People don’t trace back what is written in Revelation 20:2 back to the serpent written of in Genesis with Adam and Eve. “And he laid hold on the dragon, THAT OLD SERPENT, which is the devil and Satan and bound him for a thousand years.” What was John of Patmos referring to? Revelation 12:9 also refers to Satan as being that old serpent. Did God tell a snake his seed would have enmity with the woman’s seed? That doesn’t make sense.

Ba’al was a fertility god of the pagans, but was he more than that? In Elijah’s time, Ba’al was the great opponent god and Jezebel was a chief pagan prophetess. As Paul reiterates the conversation between Elijah and God in Romans 11, he adds something that really puts traditional teaching into question. As is written, God tells Elijah “I have reserved to myself 7000 men who have not bowed the knee to Ba’al.” Traditional teachers have said that God meant there were 7000 people living in Israel who did not bow the knee to this pagan god. That’s wrong. If God reserves to Himself a person, it means that that particular person has not lived yet. Proof of that is what Paul said afterward. “Even so at this present time there is also a remnant according to the election of grace.” A remnant. That means there are still some left. Elijah lived around 900 BC. Paul wrote this around 900 years afterward. There couldn’t be any living still if the traditional teachers are correct. God reserves to himself a person by not letting them live. In that particular conversation God meant that He has reserved to Himself 7000 men (and women) for the last generation. When else? Also Paul said that these people were not chosen for any work they have done, or else it would not be called grace. The ability to have faith is done by grace, but to show it is a work. Showing faith is a good work. Being unfaithful is a bad work. These people did not show their faith in this life in order to be chosen. Those seven thousand people listed in 1st Kings were not the same seven thousand that Elijah, God, and Paul were referring to. The seven thousand in 1st Kings included children. How can a child be held accountable for either being faithful or not being faithful? They cannot be. That is what Paul was trying to clarify. Another secret to all of this is what Ba’al truly was. Ba’al may have been the pagan god of fertility, but he was also the deity of Venus. Helel/Lucifer means the morning star. What is the morning star? Venus is. Take it from there. I cannot go any further. I wish you luck.



  1. Marianne says:

    baal or lucifer….it is still bad news…..

    only Yahweh is God


    • Stella says:

      Only Yahweh is A god? Or only God is “God”? You do not make sense to me.

      • Lucas says:

        Yahweh is just another on of God’s names. You could say that Jehova is actually a different pronunciation of Yahweh. This is understandable taking into account for different alphabets and that in the hebrew and greek alphabets Yahweh is actually spelled YHVH.
        So, in short God, Yahweh, and Jehova are all just different names for the same being.

      • tony says:

        You should know that all the information that you are seeing on these sights about the devil and satan are wrong. Satan (Lucifer) and the Devil are two different beings and held different positions in Heaven. This truth and knowledge is not known by modern day Christianity because the mystery of heaven is only revealed to a selected sect…….More info on Satan and the Devil please contact me. You will know things you have never heard or read in your life.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        It is not modern day Christianity that make them the same, but the Old Testament, as I showed very clearly here. His name wasn’t Lucifer. That is a Latin translation of the word “Helel”. If you don’t know this, especially considering I wrote it here in this post, then I doubt you can enlighten anyyone.

      • ULISES says:

        yahweh is not the name of real god. people made it , even jehovah is also made it.just call him FATHER make it easy .people make up different names not even written in the BIBLE Jjust simple not hard and dont make up names call him FATHER………

      • Jesse Norman says:

        Well YHWH means “self-existent one”, so there is something to the name. I agree though. Call Him something that gives just reverence.

    • LionLamb says:

      Due to Latin transliteration the word Phosphoros in Greek is equivalent to the Latin word Lucifer. Some in the early church were named Lucifer. It has nothing to do with Satan its a semantically misconstrued word. No where in Hebrew text was Satan called Lucifer. In fact, Peter references the “day star” dawning in our hearts. The word in Latin would be the same “Lucifer” but in the positive context.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        How does the Greek come into play with Isaiah? It always perplexes me when people find some small fact that they think others don’t know, but then use it to ignore other things that are staring them in the face. They instead arrive to a conclusion that elevates them into some genius club. Satan is a bad guy, and his name used to be Helel before he fell. Did Isaiah sound like he made “Lucifer” out to be a good guy?

      • Zorah Slovensky says:

        Hilel is reference to Bel (Sin, Seen) the crescent moon Venus star. In Roman pantheon it was star of Diana and Lucifer.

  2. Torpedo says:

    Sooo then Ba’al is the deity of Lucifer, who’s name refer’s as before he was Satan.

  3. Jesse Norman II says:

    Not quite. Ba’al is not the deity of any angel. Ba’al was the deity of pagans.

  4. Aidan Friesen says:

    Paganism is not a religion. The word pagan means “a person who has not heard the word of god”

    • Lamb of Shub-Niggurath says:

      “Pagan” means “one who lives in the country” “rustical man”. And paganism is umbrella term for ancient polytheistic religion or it’s revival.

    • wizard says:

      Are you dumb paganism and Wicca predate the Cristian religion
      it is the worship of gods not just one. that’s like saying Buddhism
      is not a religion. the pagan RELIGION is growing faster then
      most other belief systems today don’t dog on what you don’t know.

  5. Jesse Norman II says:

    Ba’al was a god to the pagans. Many, many Jews followed the pagans and they heard of God. What does that make them?

  6. jimmy says:

    What a bizarre post, ending with “What is the morning star? Venus is. Take it from there. I cannot go any further.”. What could you possibly mean by that, other than you have no idea how to explain it so you suddenly bail out with fake mysticism?

    • Child of God says:

      This is really shocking and it shows how the people behind the perverse NIV version hate the Lord Jesus and want to make Him the one defeated and cast out of heaven instead of Lucifer (the devil).

      First we will look at the fall of the devil in the KJV and then show how the new perverted NIV changes this fall to be the Lord Jesus instead of Lucifer!

      Here is what the KJV Bible says about the fall Lucifer, the devil:

      Isa 14
      12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
      13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
      14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
      15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
      16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

      Look closely at verse 12 above. Notice that the person who falls is identified by name. It is Lucifer, the devil. Also, look at how he is called “son of the morning”. Keep this thought in your mind.

      Next in the KJV, here is the Lord Jesus who is the MORNING STAR! Notice the MORNING STAR is identified to be the Lord Jesus.

      Rev 22
      16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

      Ok, we have laid the groundwork by first looking at what the Authorized KJV. Next, lets read the same verses in the perverted NIV version and see how they attack the Lord Jesus!

      Isa 14 from the NIV:
      12 How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
      13 You said in your heart, “I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. [c]
      14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.”
      15 But you are brought down to the grave, to the depths of the pit.
      16 Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: “Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble,

      Lets do some compares and see how the NIV perversion attacks the Lord Jesus.

      Look at verse 12. The NIV perversion removes Lucifer, the devil. This is important because the verses below refer directly to Lucifer the devil who fell away from God. By removing Lucifer from the text, one has to look elsewhere to see who fell.

      Next, the KJV calls Lucifer the son of the morning. The NIV perversion changes the son of the morning into the MORNING STAR! Since Lucifer has been removed in the NIV, the MORNING STAR is the one that has fallen. The identity of Lucifer the son of the morning in the KJV has been changed to the MORNING STAR in the NIV.

      So in the NIV the one who fell away from God is the MORNING STAR. In the KJV the one who fell away from God is Lucifer the son of the morning. I would say this is a very big difference!

      Finally, all we need to do now is to identify who the MORNING STAR is in the NIV perversion and we will know who fell. Lets look at Revelation 22

      Rev 22
      16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

      Notice the NIV keeps the Lord Jesus as the MORNING STAR which is the same as in the KJV.

      Can you see what the evil people of the NIV have done? They have made the Lord Jesus to be the one who fell away from God instead of Lucifer! By doing this they have changed these verses to remove the devil and curse the Lord Jesus in his place! This is a vain attempt to pervert the Word of God to make the Lord Jesus the one who fell away from God instead of Lucifer!


      Making the fall of the devil apply to the Lord Jesus is a very evil thing to do. This proves the people behind the NIV perversion hate the Lord and are seeking to lead people away from God.

      I strongly encourage people to return back to the Authorized KJV Bible. Stay away from all modern perversions as they are based on different and corrupted manuscripts than the Authorized KJV. In fact two occultic warlocks, Wescott and Hort, did much to pervert the manuscripts that are the basis for all the modern perversions of the Scriptures.



      THE NEW AGE HEBREW ROOTS MOVEMENT…more Judification of Christianity..through perversion of scripture by the Jews..

      • Jesse Norman II says:

        I’m only going to say this about your Jew-hatred, you’re no Christian. I’ve gone through this site several times, including “Those Who Hate Jews pts1&2”. It is impossible to be a Christian and be against Jews and Israel in the eyes of God, and I make it as plain as possible in those posts. I don’t want to hear “zionist this” and “zionist that”. You don’t know what you’re talking about and I don’t have the patience to argue with Jew-haters, so just mosey on over to some other site within your Jew-hating bubble. Anymore comments with “yeah, but” and scripture that is twisted and turned to your Jew-hating fancy won’t be approved. I have everything on my side. “Let them all be confounded and turned back that hate Zion.” Psalm 129:5

    • gmojustsayno says:

      There were also many Kenites pretending to be Jews as well. The elction or 7000 are those from the first earth age, the very beginning that were against satan and the children that followed him them. They are the ones God knows will never bow a knee to ba’al or the antichrist and will not stop speaking of God here in the last days. And are also those that will need to be quiet in order to let the Holy Spirit speak through them to glorify God when called before the antichrist for a testimony, as I understand it.
      The Shepherds Chapel has works that are benificial in understanding this topic. They have a tape called: Elect. Jesse I mean no disrespect, but when I see anyone in want of more information, I can not help share what I know can be beneficial to many. We do not want to loss anyone, right 🙂

    • Mr Hell says:

      HAHA He said it!

  7. Jesse Norman II says:

    That’s some accusation coming from a person showing no thought process. I said at the beginning of the post that I cannot go all that far, so I didn’t “suddenly bail out with fake mysticism”. I can only say certain things on here. Now if only one of the election of grace were to read my posts, then I can speak openly and go a lot further. I will not answer why that is. If you can read this post and think I have no idea how to explain things, then that’s your problem. I did reveal what Satan’s name meant, what it used to be (Helel) and what that meant. I’m sure you didn’t know those things before reading my post, so show some respect.

  8. brandy says:

    It doesn’t seem like such a far stretch that Baal is another name for Satan, it seems to me that all false idols are just forms of Satan. If you are not for God, then you are against him, if you are against him than you are a child of Satan. Any religion or cult that doesn’t follow Gods word is against God therefore those who belong to them also belong to Satan. I finally see what you are saying about the 7000. Are there any more verses in the Bible that refer to them?
    I am trying to read the Bible with a “clear mind”, it is hard after 20 years of doctrine has been pounded into your head. Right now I feel very drawn to Revelation and the Tribulation, although I am unsure of why. I have been deeply studing the Anti Christ and finally have understanding. But I feel like there is something more that I still have to find, hopefully, trying to put everything that I have been taught out of my mind will help me find what I am searching for. Thanks for the advice.

    • r.isaac says:

      what does the bible say?

      • Child of God says:

        The bible says in Daniel 9…that there is no antichrist as in one big powerful man…who stops the sacrifices in the temple..

        Scriptures do not teach the prevailing ‘Left Behind’ teachings..they are heresy..

        Daniel 9 is ONLY about Jesus Christ…and his death on the cross…IS WHAT STOPPED THE SACRIFICES…not an Anti Christ…

        The TEMPLE OF GOD is not going to be built in Jerusalem..ITS ALREADY BEEN BUILT…INSIDE OF EVERY BELIEVER IN CHRIST…

        I CORINTHIANS 3:16 Know ye not that YOU (CHRISTIANS) ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD…and that the SPIRIT OF GOD dwelleth in YOU?

        Yes..we have been brainwashed into FALSE END TIMES PROPHECIES that only support the building of a global gov…BASED IN ISRAEL..

        Revelation 18 shows us Israel today is NOT of God..

        Luke 21:24 tells us that Jerusalem will be trodden down until the end of the time of the gentiles…the right after that in verse tells us that THEY will see the coming of the Son of Man …

        Scriptures shows us that Zionist Israel of today..has nothing to do with God…its all hype..and lies..designed to trick Christians into supporting the global gov which is Talmudic and Kabbalist in its source

        search for this bible study….”THE ANTICHRIST CHRONICLES”. BY .WOHLBERG at WHITE HORSE MEDIA…excellent !!!

      • Child of God says:

        THE BIBLE ALSO SAYS…in Zechariah 6:12..that “THE BRANCH “shall BUILD THE TEMPLE OF THE LORD…He shall bear the glory..and shall sit and rule upon his throne..

        Old Testament points to Christ many times…

        How many men would subject themselves to torture and crucifixion just because? .

        The bible tells us over and over that God will send his son..AND THE TRUE IDENTITY OF WHO ‘ISRAEL’ IS..

        EXODUS 4;22…The Lord says, “ISRAEL IS MY SON…MY FIRST BORN….

        It didn’t say Israel is a group of people…but Gods son..AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL..are those who followed Yahweh under the first covenant…which is obviously the same as in the new…Christ the Messiah…..the son of God..

        Read scripture with this concept in your minds….the Children of Israel…in the OT were those who followed God under the First Covenant…GOD THE FATHER..THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT..

        GENESIS “let US make man in OUR image”

        Those who follow Christ in the New Testament..are still following the same God..and they are STILL CHILDREN OF ISRAEL..


        This is in the old testament..and yet many Jews deny that God sent his son…Im afraid they will miss him his second coming..


    • gmojustsayno says:

      if Jesse allowed my post replies here on his page as a means of added resources of learning – you will see that I gave a site suggestion to anyone in want of more meat to their learning. Good luck and I wish you a blessed lfe 🙂

      • Jesse Norman says:

        I did, but I can’t approve comments instantaneously so please show some patience. I have it set where I have to approve comments before they get posted to filter out cussing and other offensive statements. I try to approve comments within a day.

      • gmojustsayno says:

        No worriesl, I do understand how it works. Good that you allowed it 🙂

  9. Jesse Norman II says:

    There’s a lot about the election of grace, especially in Romans. I’m still finding verses here and there that speak of the elect that I had not known previously. Some you have to figure out that the Bible is talking about the elect. Just have to have most of the control of your thoughts with your soul to find them and figure them out. There also is Revelation 11:13. At that point their jobs will be done. They will leave this creation to endure the rest and then make their choice. Only 144,000 will not be affected by the test Satan and the fallen angels press onto men during the worst five months this age will ever see. At that point this creation will know what the right choice is. The hard part will be sticking to it.

  10. […] why the difference between Satan and Lucifer, which I answer in a very detailed blog named “THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LUCIFER AND SATAN « ONE OF THE ELECTION OF GRACE“. Again, very astute. Then there are some that really surprise me once in a while. I […]


  12. Tech says:

    In my Opinion about that matter can you really know the differences? yes, you can if you refer to the the seven princes of hell I guess, but you have to look at it from the satanic bible, but then again I look at from more than one view point. Lucifer was the element of air, sin pride, ex-Seraphim, I believe but not certain if he was one of the archangels the left hand of god and the opposite of Micheal. Lucifer was indeed associated Satan and The King of Babylon. Satan on the other hand was tempting Adam or Eve to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge. All that I know about Lucifer and Satan was the Element of Fire, sin wrath, Satan is associated with Adam And Eve, Jesus (Tempting him to do a miracle or two),Job (To See How Faithful He Is To God).Again I Believe, but not certain he was more than a Ruling Prince’s of the Celestial Orders then anything else.

    Correct me if I am wrong about any of this info

  13. Jesse Norman II says:

    So you feel that Satan was just the one that convinced Lucifer (Helel) to fall? I’ve gone through these thoughts myself but had a couple of problems with it. I look at just about everything before I arrive to a conclusion. When the lake of fire becomes an eternal prison, there are only three entities guaranteed to be in there, at least what is written anyway. That is Satan, the Beast, and the False Prophet. The Beast I know for sure is the human Antichrist. If your contention is correct, then wouldn’t the entity of Lucifer also be put in there? I’m sure he would have been specifically written if that were so. The Satanic Bible was written by just a man. Was he lead to write it? Who knows? I am more aware and fearful of the Quran being that Muhammad was a murderer and probably more vulnerable to Satan’s suggestions. What he wrote of their Messiah is the exact opposite of the Judeo-Christian Messiah. They behead infidels while the book of Revelation speaks of Christians who are beheaded for their faith in God. It is also written that people will kill Christians believing they are killing in the name of God. I haven’t read the Satanic Bible and I don’t believe it’s pertinent to what will happen at all. How many followers can the Satanic Bible have? How many does the Quran have? The predictions of the 12th Imam are particularly frightening and definitely pertinent. Thanks for the comment.

    • Child of God says:

      Im more afraid of the Jews who follow the Talmud…for it is they who for centuries..that have murdered the Christians by the millions…Muslims too….I see no Arabs controlling world gov…but I do see Zionist doing so…AN ANTI SEMITE..IS SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT IS GOING ON…

      Is The Babylon Talmud…which is just the works of mere mans opinions..and the New Age Mystic Kabbalah the books of Satan? Seems so according to their teachings…about taking over the world…like Lucifer wanted to do…I WILL BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH..

      Its a known fact that the Jews deem themselves their own Messiah..their own God..and that is why the ‘world conquest’…its taught to them from birth…

      THERE IS NO ANTICHRIST AS IN ONE BIG POWERFUL MAN…THAT DOES NOT EXIST IN THE BIBLE…ITS THE JUDIFICATION OF CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURES…Martin Luther …Jesus Christ..and many others warned us about Jewish interpretation of Christian scripture being corrupt..

      They get this perversion of scripture in Daniel 9..saying that an AntiChrist betrays the Jews..and stops the animal sacrifice..Thats where they get this THIRD TEMPLE teachings as well..all of which DO NOT EXIST IN THE BIBLE…ITS ALL JEWISH MYTH…BOOK OF TITUS..PAY NO ATTENTION TO JEWISH MYTHS..


      These myths were thought up long ago..and have been resurrected today by the Jews to support their aspirations of ruling over mankind with an IRON ROD as Mecham Begin said when he claimed Jews as THE MASTER RACE…false end times prophesies saying that in 1949 the beginning of the end times started with the creation of the state of Israel..NONE OF THIS IS ANYWHERE IN THE BIBLE…ITS ALL MYTHS..LIES..Jesus said that Satan was the father of lies…a liar and a murderer from the beginning..

      Christ said that MANY ANTICHRISTS had already gone out from among the true believers…The HARLOT OF false doctrine in the Christian churches…which are being corrupted by the Jews..the many anti christs that had already gone out from among the disciples and Messiah in the beginning of the New Covenant era .

      The bible teaches us that THE SIGN OF THE COMING OF CHRIST…IS WHEN THE GREAT DECEPTION..THE GREAT FALLING AWAY FROM THE TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL happens…NOt a Jewish state of Israel..THOSE ARE JEWISH MYTHS….The Talmudization of Christianity..That stuff is taught in the Babylon Talmud..NOT THE BIBLE.

      The Judification of Christian scripture..the Talmudization of Christianity and the GLOBAL DOMINATION AGENDA is not being done by Muslims..but by those who say they are of Judah..but are they do lie….Revelation mentions them again..

      …Their unholy books dictate this global domination agenda to them……and we need to seek truth..and not trust anyone without seeing what it is that they believe..II John tells the Christian..NEVER TO ASSOCIATE WITH ANY ANTICHRIST…THATS ANYONE WHO DOES NOT FOLLOW CHIRST..The Jews do not..Its heresy that Christiainty has aligned itself with warmongers who control this nation AND MANY NATIONS today..

      THOU SHALT NOT MURDER..the people of the world with our big armies and weapons beyong belief…against people with pipe bombs…ggeesshh..

      THOU SHALT NOT COVET lands of the Middle East

      THOU SHALT NOT STEAL the Oil and Gas that belongs to the Arabs in the middle east..

      THAT SHALT NOT LIE about who really did 9/11…and the many other false flag crisis in the past used to make war with the people of the world…HOW CAN THIS BE CHRISTIANS FOLKS!!

      Chrisitians by aligning themselves with Zioninst JEws..are breaking the commandments of God…

      By doing so..Christians of the flesh now serve a different god..the Jews…


      Were to preach the gosple of peace and love…the gospel of Christ..and draw mankind to Messiah…

      But .by making war with helpless people of the world…we are not doing so, we have become a murderous nation..NO CHRISTIAN SHOULD EVER SUPPORT SUCH AN AGENDA ALL BASED ON LIES DESIGEND TO MAKE YOU GIVE UP YOUR FREEDOMS…..Some in Christianity have become..Christians of the flesh..not of the spirit…minions of Satan..Just as happened to the Israelites in the days of Christ..Isreal of the flesh..gone astray…same thing happening again..




      BOOK OF TITUS…PAY NO ATTENTION TO JEWISH MYTHS…they profess that they know God, but in works..they deny him..being abominable and disobedient..

      Now why would God put such a verse in the bible..if he did not want us to pay close attention to it?

      By aligning Christianty with Talmudic Judaism..we are destorying the Kingdom of Christ…Im sure the Jews delight in this they hate the Christians..and have murdered them by the millions in Armenian..Germany..Russia..and now they are in America….What do they have in store for us????? History repeats itself when the people do not know it..

  14. Tech says:

    Thanks for the info man.

    • Tech says:

      Lucifer fall for is pride

    • Jesse Norman II says:

      You’re welcome. Lucifer’s/Helel’s pride isn’t exactly why he fell. Pride on its own does nothing. It’s what pride makes you do that matters. He was prideful, but the act of him trying to be like God is how he really fell.

  15. Tech says:

    sorry for the spelling errors

  16. mrs t says:

    I am in a minority of one amongst everyone I know. I ask everyone as carefully as I can their opinion. I keep thinking of Luke 17: 26-27. I have just read your last comments relating to the elect. I have no religious background or education. But I have read alot. When I read the bible I feel it is simple and honest. If you close your eyes you can see it. I am now at a point where I am struggling with my church. They are lovely people but they do not believe that the bible is written by God and is exact. Why then do I Jesse? Seriously I’m not clever. Should I still attend church because I worry that they are doing a great harm but I don’t want to blaspheme against them.

  17. Jesse Norman II says:

    That’s the way it’s supposed to be. Truth of God’s real doctrine is even a fraction of a minority, but it is written it will be so in Romans 11. I don’t have any religious background either. My family are borderline atheists and I’ve been to church maybe 15 times in my life. The Bible is simple to someone that has eyes and ears with patient reflecting, but the real higher points of wisdom which I cannot share here are quite difficult. The Bible is written in a way to try to get one to overthink it. Some mysteries are actually so simple you’d feel like kicking yourself for not figuring it out sooner.

    As far as your church’s beliefs go, Satan has for a while been infiltrating Christian churches to move the congregation away from accepting the Word. The reason he does this is so it moves the congregation into sometime down the road to accept the one world government as the religion. He’s doing it here in the US too. I’ve written of late about the Kenites and that Soros is the Great Kenite. Kenites are descendants of Cain who was the descendant of Satan. Being that Soros is like his father, he is cunning, manipulative, convincing, and power-hungry. Satan’s fall came because he was power-hungry, and he was subtle and convincing when beguiling Eve. Jesus said in Rev. 3:9 that the synagogue of Satan will be started by people who say they are Jews, but are not. Those are Kenites. The synagogue of Satan will be the religion of the one world government. If you haven’t read those posts about the Kenites, I suggest you do. It will bring about a totally new perspective on what’s going on in the world and in our supposed Christian churches.

    Whether or not you should stay is your decision. My advice is maybe you should keep going because accepting the Word for what it is, you will know what is coming and why. Your soul will also become a stronger voice so you will be more certain and wise with things as they come. Because of this when you say such and such will happen and they happen, they’ll remember that you predicted it. Sure maybe a few times they might dismiss it, but after a while they won’t be able to ignore it. How you are now won’t be how you will be two years from now. I remember when I first began I couldn’t quote John 3:16. Saying you’re not clever is a good attitude to have which implies not only are you eager to learn, but prepared to learn. The Great Enlightening is coming so keep your chin up and remember what Jesus said. “Nevermind about those that mock you because they also mocked me before you.” I’m paraphrasing there, but doing it accurately. If their dimwittedness is too overwhelming, then find a couple of people and meet with them and have your own church. A church isn’t a building. A church is made of people that talk about the Word of God. Make your own church if you can no longer bear their nonsense.

  18. Ron says:

    you have some very good blogs very good.
    I have 2 major questions. if you can answer That would be great. The first i have to ask to make sure you are not “in sheeps clothing.

    1- in your words what is the the Gospel?
    2 – Why is with all the secrets, What are you keeping, and dont tell me your writing a book 🙂

    God bless and Jesus be with you

  19. Jesse Norman II says:

    If I was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, I would move people away from what is actually written. Not tracing things back to the original Hebrew and Greek, which most teachers don’t go anywhere near doing. That would be a wolf in sheep’s clothing. To answer your question, the Gospel is that Jesus died and was destined to die on the cross and defeated Death (Satan) to fulfill what the Messiah was supposed to fulfill. With His death, our creation has a chance for salvation. The question one must or should figure out is why He was destined to die for our sins. Adam and Eve might have been the ones to blame for bringing onto our creation sin and death, but God did create the tree of knowledge for a reason. Since Jesus is the foundation if this world, then that means He was destined to die for our sins before Adam and Eve sinned. Our souls are much older than our bodies. Jeremiah 1:5 is a great verse that will open eyes if you add it to Romans 11:6.

    I might be writing a book, but I wouldn’t put anything in the book I wouldn’t put here. 🙂 Romans 11 says that everyone outside the election of grace is given the spirit of slumber. Eyes that cannot see and ears that cannot hear for understanding. Jesus spoke to people who weren’t of the elect, but would only go so far. He spoke to them in parables. When asked by His disciples why He spoke to some of the very same people He healed in parables, whose faith must have been very strong after being healed, Jesus said to them “because they don’t have eyes and ears for understanding.” Then He said to the disciples that they have eyes and ears so He can speak to them openly. I go as far as I am comfortable with. One day the spirit of slumber will be lifted and the mystery of God will be finished, but not yet. If you are one of the elect, then at some point you will know it 100%. When you attain the highest points of wisdom, you will realize wisdom isn’t just about knowing the mysteries, but what you can or cannot say. If you can say honestly about a person that their faith is stronger than those Jesus healed, saw Him heal, saw Him divide a few fishes and loaves amongst hundreds, then when you get to those high points of wisdom by all means tell them the things they want to know. There is no way for me to do this over the computer. Thanks for the compliment.

  20. Ron says:

    the second answer i really like the “I go as far as I am comfortable with.” that is what I was hoping for the vail of slumber i am fully aware of.

    The first answer is just my “testing the spirits…. question everything mind set.”
    The whole paragraph can be summed up with ” The coming Kingdom of God, and your entrance by way of Faith in Jesus Christ who is the only way.”

    I dont know if i am one of the elect – but i have read alot from many different “ways to God” and also from anicent texts and the only way that is right is with in the Bible.

    I have compaired prophecy from the Bibles perspective and the koran’s perspective and the are the same except for one important aspect.. they both and percieved from different sides( GvsE if you will in a vail of G if that makes since)
    I do not understand why this isnt touched upon…. why this isnt more readly available.

    Thanks for your response
    God Bless

  21. Jesse Norman II says:

    That would put Islam under a new microscope, and the atheists calling the shots don’t want to bear light on that. What Islam says of their Messiah is what the Judeo-Christian Antichrist/Satan does. I saw Glenn Beck touch on this a bit, but his idea is that it was written purposely the opposite by Mohammad I don’t believe is the case at all. I believe Satan saw the murderer Mohammad as a way to bring future believers of Islam towards a worldwide clash with their infidels, thus setting up this future battle we all will have. Satan knows those who say they are Jews, but are not and are liars will partner with the believers in Islam to battle against God’s chosen race and the Christian people. If you aren’t aware of my recent posts about the Kenites, I’d check up on them.

    Whether or not you are one of the elect, you will know it someday. Until then, keep going until you either hit your ceiling or find out that you don’t have one. My best advice, and I tell everyone this, is to read without any preconceived thoughts or notions. Read the Bible like you don’t know who’s in it, what it says, or any of the doctrine. Once you can honestly do that (this is the HARDEST thing to do), then you can ask questions to yourself that you never thought of before and go further than you can think of right now. If you do have a ceiling and you prove your worth, God just might raise it some. God bless you too. The great awakening is coming.

  22. Ghost says:

    In Mormonism, Lucifer (Helel in Hebrew) is a brilliant
    and powerful archangel, a son of Elohim (God the Father)
    and brother to Yahweh (God the Son, Jehovah, or Jesus)
    and to all of the children of Elohim including all of the
    souls of humanity. Lucifer became obsessed with pride
    and attempted to take over Elohim’s family and subvert
    the Father’s plan for his children. A struggle of wills ensued,
    and Lucifer and his followers lost. They are exiled
    to Earth and are permitted to tempt people. When Elohim’s
    purpose has been fulfi lled, Lucifer and his demons
    will be exiled to the “Outer Darkness,” completely cut off
    from divine light and love.

  23. Jesse Norman II says:

    His destiny was to die for our sins by crucifixion in this life, but our souls are much older than our bodies. Jesus was to be put into human flesh to give our creation a way to salvation. A lot of what you stated I do agree with, except for the brothers part. Perhaps this wasn’t the first time we’ve lived. The prophets set themselves apart somehow (Romans 8, 11, Jeremiah 1:5) before they lived as humans. Perhaps our creation simply were created for His joy and didn’t have any rules except for one. Once we broke that rule, sin and death were rampant so God had to clean up Helel’s mess and create this new age with a way out of punishment. Perhaps that is why Satan is also named Death. There was no sin or death until we broke that one rule, similar to what happened with Adam and Eve even though somebody at some point was going to eat of that tree. God created it for a reason. It just wasn’t supposed to be them which is why Satan tried to corrupt Eve and Adam. Thanks for your input.

    • Ghost says:

      NO problem. the more information the better

    • Ghost says:

      did you satan has the right over humanity

    • Ghost says:

      your about the crucifixion but think about it. Lucifer in heaven with our father (God) and he has a brother. the question is “How is Jesus is the brother of Lucifer?” but then again can’t question God That much.We might go on for awhile about this Jesse but if first one looks in one point of view(Holy) and The second one looks in the other point of view(Unholy). That would that be insufficient, but if the third one looks at both view (Holy and Unholy) The information would be sufficient but If you think of view points in the Holy bible i would be grateful look in to that. The info i read is somewhat interesting. and I’ll put the Lucifer and Satan up later on.

  24. Ghost says:

    forgot something a and here a little paragraph i think wanna take a look at.

    The early church fathers did more to cement the identity
    of Satan with the Devil and the tempter in the Garden
    of Eden, and with Lucifer. In the second century,
    Justin Martyr was the fi rst to identify Satan with the
    serpent. He said the fall of Satan at the hands of Christ
    was predicted in Isaiah in the description of the fall of
    Lucifer. Justin also linked Satan with the Sons of God, or
    WATCHERS, and associated the powers and principalities
    (two orders of angels) of the Epistles with pagan gods
    and demons.

  25. Ghost says:

    No comment hahahahaha

  26. Jesse Norman II says:

    What does “no comment hahahaha” mean?

  27. Ghost says:

    well i was wondering you were there so i used “no comment hahahahaha” as bait, but you can call it my devilish side if you want.

    • Jesse Norman II says:

      All you had to do was send me a serious comment and I would have responded. Sometimes I approve comments but don’t have time to respond, then I forget to write back later. A simple message would have sufficed to remind me instead of playing games. As for your prior comment, Justin Martyr was not the first to name Satan as the serpent. St John was in Rev. 20:2. He spoke of that clearly. That’s like crediting the first priest for being the first to name Jesus as the Messiah. Also in the early parts of Job, Satan was referred to as one of the sons of God. Must be nice to be Justin Martyr… getting credit for things already known.

  28. Jsikinger says:

    I’ve been reading a bit on the subject and have been thinking, satan is just a title. Anyone who opposes God could be called satan. Though the first rebellion againast him would be Lucifer, which is most likely why people attribute the title satan with lucfer. The word president is just a title, but saying it we think of who is the biggest holder of that title- to americans it’s Obama. Thus it isn’t odd that the biggest holder of satan woold be the Lucifer.

    • Jesse Norman II says:

      It wasn’t just a title that appeared before God and persecuted Job. It won’t be a title that will be put in the bottomless pit. It won’t be a title that will be released afterward that a millennia later and then be serving his punishment forever. Just because names have meanings, it doesn’t mean the only thing there is is the definition. Those who do a little bit of studying and know of the definition, then say all there is to the word is the definition are doing him a huge favor.

  29. jsikinger says:

    Well there is a mass confusion between these differences of satan, and lucifer. One of the angels of God, Mastema could be classified as a Satan to man, but he works under Him and only with His permission. The term Satan, like I said, is just a title. Even Lucifer is an alias when looking at Isaiah 14:3-20 ( The fall of the babylonian king was similair to the Devil’s fall that they decided to name the Devil Lucifer to refer to him before his fall. Thus we get the first fallens angel’s name, Lucifer. In reality we have no real name for the serpant of Genisis, or the Dragon of Revelations, or the fallen angel. Furthermore, of course all there is to his name’s are definitions because he have no real name for him. I understand that it won’t be a title being overcome on the last day, but it’s confusing that we so many innacurate words to describe The Devil. That was what I was trying to get at- that we are have no appropriate name from the Devil.

    • Jesse Norman II says:

      I wrote everything here to explain what the differences between Lucifer/Helel and Satan are. I know there is a lot of confusion which is why this is one of my most popular posts. I think I explained it quite well.

      That king of Babylon doesn’t exist yet. There is a future king of Babylon to come, which Isaiah the Prophet was referring to. He called him by his former name to inform what he used to be known as. Satan is the future king of Babylon.

  30. That…actually made a lot of sense.

    • Jesse Norman II says:

      I don’t give half-witted explanations that some teachers give. They don’t even expect you to buy them because they don’t even buy them. Thanks for coming to my site.

  31. Uncle Tree says:

    This was very interesting. Thank you for expanding my horizon!

    It’s good to know we’re free to choose amongst
    our biases and prejudices to make free choices.
    If we deny our free will, we’re screwed. I think.
    Satan needs us more than we need him.
    If otherwise, freedom has no value.

    Have a good day! Peace, UT

  32. Mrs T says:

    Hi Jesse
    Just wanted to wish you a happy christmas. Keep posting I love to read your discussions. There are so few places to talk and learn from a higher vantage point.
    Mrs T.

    • Jesse Norman II says:

      Thanks, you too. I think I’ve covered just about everything, so I’m probably done writing new posts. I might have some ongoing discussions in some pages at the top of the site. There might be another page coming that will also be ongoing. WordPress stopped revealing word searches to me that bring people to my site, which means “Unanswered Questions…” is basically done as well. Thanks for the compliment.

  33. Stephen John says:

    Jesse, How would you describe an this way? Can people receive an ‘awakening’ that is not of God, but of deception? I do not see that. Something happened personally about 5 months ago, and it ALL goes back to saving two lives in the ocean over 30 years ago, and then here and be ‘available’ for when two loved ones approach their death. With that intense desire to be there for them..what occurred over a period of time was deep questions about existence and the delusion of ‘time’ as I perceive it. Then came, ‘everything is man made’ including time. Everything man made..will perish. Everything of Spirit is Eternal. Then in the darkness of early early morning, came something like this “KNOW”..the dark night sky with stars, the single bird chirping in the darkness, the crack of the waves on the nearby shore by my place,,echoed..the darkness echoed! How why wyn what?! I did not know…all I knew was ..I would Know a Lot. I do not know anything..but my perceptions have totally changed. One day not long after that, it looked like people were wearing masks. Suddenly, TV is getting to be a ‘dark place”..I listen to only one group now on CDs, “YES” but it must have Jon Anderson. I was led to Jakob Boehme and Mozart. Both of whom were small and unattractive. Jon is small and has an unusual voice, like an angel. The bible now..which I had not even known at the time..does talk volumes in the smallest sentences. It is not just by sight, something no words can paint within an invisible framework that is limitless. How to explain. I do not know, but it seems to have to do with LOVE and Caring..and Understanding…and Wisdom..and Sincerity and Desire. All capitalized first letters. And specific numbers, like a Universal Code. June 27th at 99E 27th St..I saved Two Lives. Thank you.

    • Jesse Norman II says:

      Time will tell. Do what you feel you are lead to do. When I was first called to read, it was unmistakable. I’ve had my share of visions, but I was able to decipher what God was telling me pretty quickly. Most dreams though are just dreams. It’s like a screensaver for the brain. It has to keep working while we sleep, so most dreams mean nothing.

  34. Septi says:

    Actually, Satan and Lucifer are two different beings. Satan works under God to tempt humans, then betray them. That’s his job (Job will tell you) as the accuser. Lucifer was the one who rebelled against God. But somewhere along the lines in Christian/Catholicism, the two names Helel (AKA Lucifer) and Satan became synonymous.

    The Dead Sea Scrolls tells their two accounts.

    • Jesse Norman II says:

      Then why did he tempt Jesus if he works under God? Why is he destined to go into the bottomless pit? The reason why they are separated is because he had a different name before he fell, then God changed his name after he fell.

  35. Rei says:

    I actually agree with you, There is a major difference between Satan and Lucifer, and It sickens me who think they are one and the same. I want to slap everyone who says they are the same.

  36. will9baker says:

    What most think about Lucifer= satan and about Luciferianism is simply untrue. I am a Luciferian[of a neo-gnostic persasion} the only thing that seperates Jesus/Christ from Lucifer{both called the morning star/son of the dawn btw}is that Christ-conciousness is about being absorbed back into the one/divine mind, and Lucifer-consiousness is about making ones own identity conciousness immortal/divine{this does not mean disrepsect towards the divine neccaserily btw, I for one am a Panen-Deist theologically and revere the divine mind/all one/God/whatver you want to call it}- it’s just that after death the Luciferian wants to explore the cosmos{most, not all} rather than be subsumed back into the one conciousness, but still for some of us we still wish to retain a connection to the divine source/one. That is all. Many Luciferians are very empathic and wish to help others, like Lucifer{who is an archetype best represented in the proto-type Prometheus, Prometheus was very empathic and charitable, he stole the fire of enlightement, self-awareness and creativity from Zeus/Yahveh because he did’nt like seeing them being unjustly enslaved and mistreated, he cared}.

    Nor is Lucifer anti-Jesus/Christ{in fact in some gnostic Luciferian paths, the two are seen as brothers or perhaps even two aspects of tghe same being/energy/idea; again both are “morning star”} FYI: Lucifer is NOT Satan to most Luciferians{to some, yes}. Lucifer and Satan have different historical, cultural, mythical, and etymological origins, meanings, and implicatations.

    Lucifer is the english of the latin words “Lux” and ‘ferrer”[meaning “light-bearer”} and is archetypically Prometheus[Greek}, Enki{Sumerian}, Quetzequatl{Aztec}, Phanes{Orphic greek} amongst others.

    Lucifer has no basis in the bible for demonization{or anything else} like satan does. Except as a mistranslation of a passage from the book of Isaiah that refers to the fall of a very human babylonain king{not an angel or demon,etc} whose poetic title was morning star son of the dawn{also a title of Lucifer through Venus, but also a title used by and for Christ as well}. Lucifer as a word is based in the latin words “lux/lvx” and “ferrer”{translated- ‘light-bearer”} and was first used by the ancient greeks to refer to the planet Venus in it’s morning glory as the brightest object in the pre-dawn/daybreak hours. Lucifer is a completely alien element in modern christianity, it was’nt even used a name for the devil or satan until around the 13th century a.d. and populrized by poets like Milton and Goethe. Lucifer has totally different etymological, cultural, mythical, historical origins, meanings and implications from Satan and the Devil as well.

    Satan is hebrew for ‘adverary/opposer” and in the Jewish bible{Old Testament} was no fallen angel either, but a angle that worked for Yahveh the heavanly judge as a sort of heavanly court prosecuter, and was any angel Yahveh sent to ‘oppose” human works on his behalf.

    However Satan has been inextricably linked to being something else. And the word “Satan” in hebrew, there is an etymological hypothesis that the Hebrews/Jews committed a cultural inversion of two words taken from Vedantic/sanscrit culture- SAT{pure existance/BEING} and TAN{Unfolding or emenating from/BECOMING; or ‘eternal truth”}- many Satanists are influenced by this as well as the hebrew for their paths. Satan is archetypcally Ahriman/Angra Mainyu{Zoroastrianism}, Set{Egyptian}, amongst others.

    Anyways, Lucifer is not synoymous with Satan, except that they both possess a mutual link through Prometheus{who also is a Christ proto-type and a cretaor god proto-type as well}. Anyways, there is no Lucifer in Judeo-christian scriptures to demonize or equate with satan or the devil/diabolus AT ALL! Except as a mistranslation of a passage from the book of Isaiah that originally/actually did not say lucifer{lux ferrer/light bearer} but “Morning star, some of the dawn”, the fundamentalist christians made a rhetorical leap in equating this with Lucifer. The passage actually is referring to a very human babylonian kings fall, not an angels. Lucifer is born from greek myth and sumerian with latin etymology. He/it is NOT Satan or the devil/demon[malevolence}.

    Thus most people equating as synonymous lucifer with satan and with the devil/diabolus and mephistopheles is completely wrong. Most people have got Lucifer and Luciferianism and Luciferians all wrong, misjudging, as well as they have misintrpreted and misrepresented satan and satanism too.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      I am amazed at how people take certain bits of knowledge and run with it without using any common sense. These last two comments might be the most bizarre I have ever had, and I’ve had a lot of them. I don’t have any idea how Jesus or any of the other names given to Him mean the same thing as Helel does. Jesus’ real name was Yeshua, which means “God saved”. Messiah means “anointed”. Christ is the English pronunciation of the Greek word “Χριστος” (khris-TOHS), which is simply the Greek translation of Messiah. Immanuel means “God with us”. Where is any of Jesus’ names or titles the same as Helel? I am equally astonished over the “mistranslation” comment because it wasn’t a mistranslation. Lucifer is the correct Latin translation of Helel, and I went over the translation in this post. It’s as if you didn’t read it. Then the explanation over Helel being as anything other than someone that fell as Isaiah wrote is also bizarre. You can connect him with Prometheus all you want, but all you are doing is taking bits of knowledge but then showing your ignorance at the same time. There is obvious Greek myth and there is what is written in the Bible. You can say you’re an atheist and don’t believe what is written, but to take a character out of the Bible and then paint them however you want makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Lucifer/Helel clearly fell according to Isaiah. To say he is anything but someone (an angel or human… whatever you believe he is) who fell, is simply a case of you willing to lie to yourself, whatever your motivation is for doing so. You using a character in Isaiah as a blank canvas that is the antithesis of the book that introduced him to you shows a self-blindness the likes I have rarely seen. Would you know of Helel without Isaiah? No, you wouldn’t.

  37. will9baker says:

    I might add that even Satan was not a fallen angel. In the Jewish scriptures/Old Testament. Satan was not an enemy of the god Yahveh, but a willing angel of his. Yahceh being the judge, Satan was a sort of heavanly court it all, and an angel Yaveh sent out to “oppose” human works for him. He was not the serpent in the garden, a demon a fallen angel, or any thing of the sorts. The fundamentalist christians and muslims misintrpreted and misrepresented him/it as well., after they were influenced by the dualistic doctrines of Zoroastrainism and of pagan Egyptian mythology[amongst others}.

  38. Susan Catlin says:

    Hi Jesse, I’ve been reading your writing for a while now, and I must say, I love it! I studied with Shepherds Chapel for about six years, so what you are writing is not new to me. I’m so glad to have found you as you add to what I’ve been taught. Keep up the great work!

    • Jesse Norman says:

      Thanks for the compliment. It’s always rewarding to hear that I’m helping people. That is my purpose-my sole purpose for now at least. Times change and so will my purpose, but with the basis of helping the souls, not the flesh of people. Pastor Murray had a great flock and I’m sad to hear of his passing. He was definitely better than most. I’m sure he’s enjoying his current, temporary residence. I wrote a newer post along these lines called “The Definitive Work on Kenites, Cain, and the Seed of Satan”. It is the most informative writing on the subject you will find on the web. May God through His Son bless you with wisdom as you go down your road.

  39. adonai says:

    If it wasn’t for Jehovah, the concept of evil or Satan would never exist so pretty much god wanted a story or a being for humanity to oppose and hate on while Jehovah didn’t even attempt to stop the serpent from tempting Adam and eve . Jehovah also created Lucifer so I’m pretty sure he knew how he was going to turn out so in a way its pretty sh***y how Jehovah screwed over Lucifer by automatically naming him the first criminal in existence so in the end he shouldn’t suffer

    • Jesse Norman says:

      Did you even read what I wrote? He fell on his own. God didn’t create Satan. God created Helel. Helel created Satan. The tree of knowledge was destined to be eaten by somebody. Before Adam and Eve ate from the tree to bring sin and death, Jesus was destined to die for our sins. God is supposed to stop two people from breaking the ONE rule He gave them- the same two people who actually talked to Him? It’s amazing how some will read and then use God’s Word as a basis to make Him out to be the bad guy while making Satan out to be a sympathetic character. Your map is upside down and you know nothing.

      • Mr Hell says:

        given that he IS omnicient he knew it was going to happen so he had it planned all along

      • Jesse Norman says:

        The angels had free will. Perhaps you should use the first two chapters of Job for reference where God had to ask Satan where he was.

      • I see Adam and Eve as God’s own little separate creation. You have to remember, Jesus was in the garden as well. If they didn’t disobey, they could have had eternal life. Instead, they did die that day. So in essence you are blaspheming God, by saying there are two that can create. I am sure God appreciates that! Lucifer, Helel, Satan, the tree of knowledge fell, because he wanted to be as God, won’t happen. What is one thing Satan can’t do?, raise someone from death. I was curious at your page, but I value my opinion over yours, as I know for a fact, God came upon me as a boy, and I wasn’t asking Him to, He did it at His choosing! Great day! Good luck!

  40. The only difference between Lucifer, Satan, Serpent, tree of knowledge of good and evil, Apollyon,Abaddon, Beelzebub, Belial, Accuser, Destroyer,Leviathan, and on and on, is the spelling! God bless!

    • Jesse Norman says:

      Satan wasn’t the tree of knowledge of good and evil. According to Romans 8, the elect were judged and chosen before this life. Their innocence set them apart from the rest of this creation. This age is a second chance for those who are in the book of life to see if they are worthy of everlasting life. Christ was destined to be the Way to everlasting life by dying for our creation’s sins. So before one man or woman sinned, Jesus was destined to die for our sins. So what does this mean? It means that men were destined to sin in this age. God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil on earth to eventually have men disobey and bring about sin and death. Satan’s temptation of Eve had to do with him bringing about sin and death before its due time. He wanted to completely corrupt this creation to the point that the Christ couldn’t even be born, let alone live and die sinlessly for the remission of sins. Everything about this age depended on the Christ to die for our sins and defeat Death. It was the sin of this creation of the previous age that brought this age about, out of the mercy of our Lord God for deciding to give this creation another chance. Jesus Christ was to die not just for the sins of this age, but the previous one as well.

      • Well, I am not going to argue with you. However, I did have an experience as a young boy, that can only be explained in adulthood, as God coming upon me. I saw what you said about your experiences, and you mentioned nothing of what happened like me. So, God gave me a gift that day, and I feel in my heart, I was chosen to His election. I do not claim to know everything, but I do have to disagree with a lot of what you say. Matthew 13:11-13 was written for a reason. One thing, Satan is cast out upon the Earth. He will play Jesus in Jerusalem, in the Temple. You saying or thinking it will be some leader, you are surely misconstrued. The ten kings without kingdoms as yet, Satan will bring with him. They have power with the Antichrist in that time. Keep reading buddy! God bless!

      • Jesse Norman says:

        I really haven’t said anything of my experiences. I don’t understand the need to compare them either. Satan has not been cast upon the earth yet. The war in heaven hasn’t happened yet. I know some teach that Satan is the tree of knowledge, but that could not be true when considering all things. There will be a separate leader who has power from Satan since it’s clearly written that there are three separate entities that go into the lake of fire: beast (Antichrist), false prophet, and Satan. Again, I do not exclude words that are written that do not fit my point of view. Knowing there are three different entities is not that advanced, and I don’t get how an experience is supposed to sway me that what is written is not true.

  41. David says:

    I always thought the 7,000 in 1st Kings 19:18 were the same as Romans 11:4. Also how did you come to the conclusion there were children included in the 7,000 of 1st Kings 19:18?

    • Jesse Norman says:

      It seemed to me this included children because it says “even the children of Israel”, but I could very well be wrong , and shouldn’t have used that as an example, because it wasn’t needed. In the Hebrew, the word “left” as in “left Me” meant “held back”. The words “I have reserved to Myself” in Romans is more correct. Remember, Baal was an umbrella term to encompass all gods other than Him, and it was something that Elijah could recognize, since he was the opponent god at the time. God was referring to those who didn’t bow to Helel in the first age. From God’s point of view, how is one held back?

      • David says:

        Ok I believe you got the verse from 1st Kings 20:15. I didn’t notice that before. Seems they are counting their numbers for battle. It may be an assumption to assume that these are children, however it would be an even bigger stretch to think Israel only had 7,000 fighting men or 7,000 total kids. Maybe this is written here for a reason. So these are the 7,000 of Elijah’s time you wrote of, while 1st Kings 19:18 are the same reserved in Romans 11:4 for the end. Thank you. I’m positive there is 7,000 elect for the end, I’ve found even more verses that back that up to where it could be no other way. One of the things I’ve been thinking here lately, is the bible written specifically just to the elect? When I first read 1st Thessalonians over the 7th trump it seemed a stretch to think it was concerning the elect. Something you have to put together yes but Paul includes himself in this “group” when he uses the word “we”. If you use the word “we” you are already including yourself. Paul is including himself in this group but is one of the ones that has already passed away at that point. This part of the bible seems to be written just for the elect. Again in 1st Corinthians 15:51 Paul uses the word “we” so he is including himself in this group he is talking about. The subject here is over the dead. Paul is saying this group will be changed, not everyone because not all the dead will be with the father forever. In 2nd Corinthians 5:8 Paul uses the word “we” again referring to being present with the father but not everyone that dies is present with the father. I seem to be able to put things together on my own a bit, I just don’t know if I’m always right or not.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        You’re doing quite fine, and a very important thing you do is use discipline when contemplating. All too often I see people who believe that just because they have the ability to think of something that it’s a fact, and their belief winds up being absurd. People need to stop and think, “does this sound right?” Most unfortunately do not. I’ve said it before, the Bible is written in a way to make one outthink what is written. You are disciplined with your thinking because you want the truth, and that’s all. That is something God has certainly fomented. As far as Paul goes, not all he wrote was addressed to the elect. Most of it wasn’t. He did include himself to make the point that what he was saying included the elect, since he was one of the elect. It is just up to the elect to figure these things out. There are things addressed to the elect all throughout the Bible, even in the Old Testament. I seriously doubt I have found them all.
        When you get to the end, there is this one perfectly harmonious line called the Bible, and there are no other possibilities other than the Bible and the end. The end takes down all possible questions, no matter how left field or how creative they are, and you’re close to the end. Happy New Year.

  42. Caleb Ben Yisrael says:

    Isaiah 13:12-22 ; verse 12 gives us the name Lucifer, verses 20-22 lets us know that these are men that’s being talked about. A seed (nation) of evildoers; that’s not talking about an individual. Destroyed thy land, slain thy people. Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; I will rise up against them says Yah and will cut off from Babylon the name and remnant and son and nephew so they will not fill the face of the world with cities. So these are people and not one person. However, Christ called himself “The bright and morning star” in Revelations 22:16. In the Hebrew dictionary concordance, the name Lucifer means” bright and morning star.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      You mean 14:12, and verse 16 clearly states this is an individual. Lucifer doesn’t really mean ‘morningstar’ technically, but the morningstar was named Helel with lucifer being the Latin translation.

  43. Lois Sackett says:

    Very good study! Morning star is Venus. Yes but Venus is Christ. Rev 22:16

    16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning (NT:3720 orthrinos (or-thrin-os’); from NT:3722; relating to the dawn, i.e. matutinal (as an epithet of Venus, especially brilliant in the early day):KJV – morning.(Biblesoft’s New Exhaustive Strong’s Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

    Saturn I believe to be Satan’s planet.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      Satan, then known as Helel, was the morningstar before his fall. He was an archangel, maybe the greatest of all angels. I believe what Christ was alluding to when He referred to Himself as the morningstar was that He is like the brightest star in the sky, in an allegorical way. Thanks for the compliment.

  44. shane says:

    Dont you think LORD is a much better name since it could be a unisex name since our lord could varywell be a woman or a man or neither and is just pure energy and light.
    But I personally would think it best to use a name that is not so gender specific so not to offend. This is just my opinion that I wanted to share. I just think all the greed selfishness and hate in the world and just how humans turned out in general is most likely upsetting and disappointing

    • Jesse Norman says:

      You must be a millennial. For anyone who says they are Christian, but are wondering what gender God might be, since seemingly words in the Bible are hard to read, I’ll quote Jesus’ own words for the greatly confused, gender-identity dullards- “Our FATHER, who is in heaven…” I arrest my case. If this offends you, or the mere fact that God is a male, then go into a closet and never come out. Young people seem to have more of an obsession to look for offenses than to their devices, which is saying something. Don’t look at traffic lights! They’re offensive. How dare white people make red mean ‘stop’. Native Americans don’t want their skin color to be used like that. Nor do Asians or the all-too forgotten Martians. What about those damn Siamese cats? Talk about cultural appropriation! Anyone who puts on their W2 under occupation “Looks to be offended”, will have no problems finding offenses. It’s better you go back under the rocks you guys (oops, gender specific) used to live under and let us normal people (gender neutral) be. No one should have to worry about saying anything that can offend a snowflake because that ‘anything’ is any thing. After reading this, take a five and enjoy the crying booth, but wait your turn. Someone’s already in there after seeing someone with dark shades on and was offended for the blind. As for the blind, they just keep living their lives.

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