ANTICHRIST POSSIBILITIES

There are some silly candidates put forth by people as possibly being the Antichrist. George Bush, Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, and others. They’re not even worthy of commenting on other than those are just silly prospects as who the Antichrist might be.

There are enough clues in the Bible to at least tell everyone the origin of the Antichrist. In Daniel 7 it describes where the Antichrist will come from. It says that he will come from the fourth and last empire to take over Israel, and that it will be a reformation of this empire. In the redeveloping of this empire, the eleventh nation to join will be diverse from all of the others. This is the nation that the Antichrist will come from. The fourth empire to come was the Roman Empire. That means it will be a reformation of this empire that the Antichrist will come from. If I’m right and many others are also right, the European Union is the new Roman Empire. Look at what it’s done. It was at first a modest trade organization between European countries, and now it’s got its own army and now is the law of Europe. They brought forth the European currency, the euro. Great power lies with the EU, and that power is growing. What was the eleventh nation to join? Both Spain and Portugal came in at the same time and were the eleventh nations. So which is it? Much of the power of the EU lies in Madrid. When attacks upon and by Israel happen, Madrid steps in. If the EU is indeed the new Roman Empire, then he will most likely come from Spain.

1. King Juan Carlos of Spain: He’s the most well-known possible Antichrist. I have good reason to believe it is not him. He’s old. One thing the Antichrist probably won’t be. He does have a lot going for him. He’s the King of Spain. He has an incredible, diverse amount of royalty in him. Only his descendants have more royal blood. His ancestor was once titled King of Jerusalem. He has a lot of power in Spain. He’s more than just a titled King. He does have responsibilities beyond the royal family in Britain. I still have a very strong belief it is not him.

2. Javier Solana: Some have looked at him as the Antichrist as well. He has a lot of power within the EU and NATO as well. He is Spain’s top representative to the EU on security matters. Again, he’s too old to be the Antichrist in my opinion. I’m more sure of him not being the Antichrist than King Juan Carlos.

3. Prince Felipe: The most credible Antichrist possibility. Pope Pius XII said that when Jerusalem is in Israeli control that it will begin “the countdown” towards the tribulation period. The reason for his prediction is Jesus said that Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles until their time is fulfilled. Later Jesus said this generation shall not pass. It’s important also to note that Jesus specifically said this of Jerusalem, and not Israel. Jerusalem came under Jewish control after Israel once again became a nation. That happened in 1967 after the Six Day War, while Israel was re-established in 1948. Prince Felipe was born in 1968. The Bible says that the number of his name will be six-six-six. His name is Felipe Borbon Carlos. He is a good looking man. Lucifer was God’s most beautiful angel. He has all of his father’s royal blood and then some. His mother is the Queen of Greece. Not only will he inherit his father’s titles and has the same bloodline, but he has even more royalty in him than his father. Prince Felipe is the one that sticks out in my mind. It might not be him, but he has all of the qualities necessary except the Antichrist will not be married, but there is divorce. He to me is the most intriguing possibility.

Some might say “why debate about this”. Well why would God give us clues? There’s a reason for that. He’s not going to give us clues and expect us not to look into them. We are inching closer everyday to that day. It’s a good thing to keep your eyes opened. No matter who it will be, all but the elect have the ability bow to him for at least a moment. Only the election of grace will be ensured to not bow their knee at all. There will only be seven thousand of them when that day comes. The decision upon this creation doesn’t rest on if they ever bow their knee. It’s will they keep their faith at the end of the age. Will they stand their ground when they know what is right. Remember, the sounding of the seventh trump will remove the spirit of slumber upon this creation, and the mystery of everything is finished. That will be what is most important. All will know Jesus is the Christ and Satan is the evil one, but many will be so weak they will still fall.

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96 comments on “ANTICHRIST POSSIBILITIES

  1. Gilly says:

    I thought the Antichrist had to be a Jew. I cant see Israel letting a gentile in to the Temple as king. Rahm Emanuele so far fits the criteria nicely. At a guess.

  2. Jesse Norman II says:

    The Antichrist will have to come from one of the countries of a reformation of the old Roman Empire. In Daniel 7, they were the kingdom to come. Then it goes on to describe the reformation of this kingdom saying it will have ten nations. The eleventh will be diverse from the first ten and this is where the Antichrist will come from. The kingdom to come was the Roman Empire, so it would have to be a reformation of the Roman Empire. If this reformation exists, it would be the European Union. The eleventh nation was either Spain or Portugal, since they joined together at the same time. When something happens to Israel, Madrid steps in most of the time. In Daniel 7, it says the Antichrist will at the very least confirm the peace covenant, which would most likely involve Israel. Rahm does not have the power to do this, and he’s not from either Spain or Portugal.

  3. Gilly says:

    I am not saying you are wrong and that I am right, but the Bible can be a little tricky
    http://www.bibleinsight.com/beasts.html
    I still think the Antichrist has to be a Jew primarily.

    • Terrence Deagle says:

      Yes, I tend to agree with your analysis. I don’t see how the Jews would accept a gentile or anyone who is a non-jew but I agree with Jesse that the Jews are God’s chosen people. There is speculation that the United States was identified as Manassah and the British Comonwealth as Ephraim. I guess this goes back to the time of Herbert W. Armstrong and I think Meredith has also preached this as well. I wasn’t aware that Spain often comes in to back the Jews because in more recent times I thought it was the United States.

      • Jesse Norman II says:

        In Daniel chapter 2, it describes the fourth empire to come will be diverse from the others and will break up. Daniel 7 describes how it reforms. The eleventh nation from that reformation will be the one where the Antichrist comes from. The fourth empire was the Roman Empire. The eleventh nation to rise from this revival, if that day has come, is either Spain or Portugal from the European Union. It doesn’t say anywhere that the Jews will fall for the false Messiah. In fact, it is written in both the Old and New Testaments that he will stand in the Holy place where he ought not. I am quite sure the Jews will take that as an insult, so please tell me where it says the Jews will fall for him.

  4. Jesse Norman II says:

    This is stated pretty clearly, that the Antichrist will have to come from the eleventh country of a reformation of the old Roman Empire. Look it up yourself in Daniel 7. I’ve had comments that the Antichrist and/or the False Prophet both here and in other blogs, and I must say I’m disturbed by them. I know a lot of people still think the Jews have it coming for their perception that they killed Jesus. I hope this isn’t your mindset. I innately favor the Jews and their plight. They are God’s chosen race. Not used to be, but always will be God’s chosen race.

  5. Gilly says:

    No I dont have it in for the Jews. They are Gods chosen people and the Bible states God will Bless those who love Israel.
    Simply basing my comments on the fact that Judaism is still waiting for there redeemer. Christ was rejected as there king and killed. Israel still waits for a King like David as prophesied, and that is what the antichrists intention is. Step in to the Temple as the Messiah King.
    A Gentile will never be crowned King of Israel. The Messiah must come from the line of King David as Jesus did. A Jew.
    I have read Daniel and dont see it as clearly as you. I have not made my mind up.Its at the very least, vague.
    The world has changed in only a few months, I am watching and waiting. Lets see what unfolds.

    • douglasjbender says:

      The “Merovingian Heresy” might allow the Jews to accept a Gentile as their Messiah, if they are deceived into accepting that heresy. Basically, it says that the Merovingian kings (and hence basically all European royalty currently, essentially) were descendants of Jesus and Mary Magdalene. The heresy claims that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married, and that before Jesus died on the cross (after which the heresy claims that He was NOT resurrected), Mary Magdalene became pregnant with Jesus’ children. After Jesus’ death, the heresy claims that Mary Magdalene fled with Jesus’ children to southern France (famed for certain “seven hills”). Through these descendants of Jesus, the heresy claims, arose the Merovingian kings, through whom basically all modern-day European royalty claim descent.

      The key is that proponents of this heresy, while denying that Jesus was the Son of God, DO claim that Jesus was an actual descendant of King David, and had the right to be King of the Jews. Thus, they would claim that any worthy male descended from European royalty would have a legitimate claim to be the King of the Jews, through descent from King David via Jesus of Nazareth. It is all a lie, but if the Jews accepted the premises, they very well COULD accept a Gentile as their (political) Messiah.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        Some could, because he will fool many, but that doesn’t change the fact he must come from Spain, not Israel. It is also written that before the end that God will pour His Spirit back on the Jewish people. I believe when the abomination of desolation happens this will happen.

  6. Jesse Norman II says:

    Where does it say that the Jews will accept the Antichrist as their Messiah? It’s not written anywhere so one shouldn’t make that assumption. As a matter of fact, the Jews inherently will realize who he is before just about anyone else. I’m glad you’re not one of those who still thinks the Jews have it coming. Like I said, I’ve run into a lot of that. The world definitely has changed in recent months. We could be seeing the very beginning of the plague of the black horse. Find out what kingdom came after Daniel wrote that, then go to where it says the same kingdom will reform by starting with ten nations. The eleventh will be the nation that the Antichrist is from. If you look at King Juan Carlos and his son Prince Felipe Borbon Carlos of Spain, they’re from the line of those that were named Kings of Jerusalem.

  7. Gilly says:

    Well, its tricky. Lets say I assumed that some Jews will accept him. I will ponder some more.
    Bloody Revelations
    Still its good to sharpen up a little with a debate?

  8. Jesse Norman II says:

    Absolutely, as long as the Word is the base for your argument. Also as long as it’s done respectfully. Thanks for your comments.

  9. J Mallett says:

    President Obama just made a comment in Northern Turkey that, “the united states is not nor ever will be at war with islam.” the Antichrist will bring peace,,,,this i agree. Prince Felipe is the front runner, but what if the bringer of peace(Antichrist) is not Jewish, but a third party Individual self-sufficient independently wealthy person including President Obama. Whomever brings the peace between Israel and Palestine will be the anti-christ.

  10. Jesse Norman II says:

    I never said the Antichrist would be Jewish. I know a lot of those out there believe he will be, but I do not believe this. Also remember that in Daniel 7 only said that the Antichrist will confirm the peace covenant. Whether he plays a bigger role than that, we’ll have to see. I do take issue with what Obama said, but not so much that particular comment. President Bush said basically the same thing. I’m sure we’d both agree that is just for political expedience. Whether or not we’re at war with Islam, much of Islam is at war with us. The comment that infuriated me was when Obama said in that same question and answer session that America is not a Christian nation. More evidence that our current President is trying to change our country from the USA into the USSA. Thanks for the comment.

  11. Christian says:

    I am quite interested in finding out what sources you use to suggest that Prince Felipe is the most credible Antichrist canidate. I do agree, and would love to chat.

  12. Christian says:

    Jesse, I do appreciate the fact that you have studied Daniel comprehensively. I am quite curious as to where you came up with the idea that there will only be seven thousand who will not bend a knee to the antichrist. Also I would like to understand how J came up with the idea that the antichrist would be the one that brings peace between Israel and Palestine. It’s not obvious in Daniel 9 in my opinion. I’ll explain if that is where he got it. It’s refreshing to see that there are some that believe that God put these things in the word so that we may have a clear understanding of the things to come, not to show that He just wins in the end!

  13. Jesse Norman II says:

    Christian,

    I’ll get to your second comment first. I’ve written in other blogs dealing with the election of grace. In Romans 11 it says that God reserved to Himself seven thousand who did not bow the knee to Ba’al, which Paul was reiterating a conversation between Elijah and God. Traditional teaching says that those seven thousand people were in Israel at that time, but one must ask themselves how does God reserve to Himself someone? He does so by not letting them live until a certain time. That’s why Paul stated on his own after quoting Elijah and God’s conversation that there is a remnant today according to the election of grace. Elijah was around in 900 BC. There couldn’t be a remnant left if traditional teaching is right. Also Paul later explains that God chose these people for not any work they’ve done, but by grace alone. Showing faith is a work. So how and when did God choose these people called the election of grace? As God told Jeremiah, He knew him before he was in the womb. He chose Jeremiah before his conception. Ba’al, as understood by God and Elijah at the time, was more than just a pagan god. He was the deity of Venus as well. Lucifer, or Helel as actually pronounced in the Hebrew, means the morning star. What is the morning star? Venus is. Since then, Helel’s name was changed to Satan, which means “the adversary”. He was the morning star. Now he’s the adversary, and he has been known as Satan since the days of Adam. There is only one time that the word Lucifer/Helel was written in the Bible, and that’s in Isaiah 14:12. It describes how he fell. In Revelation 20:2, it says that old serpent that beguiled Eve was Satan. Not a snake. He’s been Satan throughout this age.

    As it’s written, there will be false prophets that will be so convincing that only the election of grace will not be convinced of their claims. They aren’t allowed to be swayed. The rest for at least a moment will bow to Satan since they’ve done so already long ago. As is written in Ecclesiastes 1:9 “there is no new thing under the Sun.” When the people of Earth see the Antichrist, who was dead suddenly alive, the reactions will be unlike anything ever seen before. After a while, some, hopefully most will reawaken from their stupor and realize who he really is. Those seven thousand written of in Romans 11 are the number of the election of grace reserved for the last generation. There were others dispersed throughout this age, but for the last generation God has reserved to Himself 7000 of them.

    The Antichrist bringing in peace to Israel and Palestine isn’t necessarily what I wrote. All I’ve said is that he will confirm the peace covenant. Being that Jesus came from Israel and Israel is the most holy land on Earth, along with the sensitive problems going on there, I must conclude with what’s written that the peace covenant will be at least between Israel and the Arabs. Remember, that peace covenant will be broken and war will come. Where does the world meet at the end of the age? Megiddo. The world is against Israel now. It will be much worse in the years to come.

    Your first comment, I have a strong intuitive thought that it is Felipe. He has an incredible amount of royalty in him. His ancestor was named king of Jerusalem. He comes from the eleventh nation to join the EU, which many (including myself) think is the revival of the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire was the fourth empire to come in Daniel chapter 2 and 7. The reformation is described as starting off with ten nations. The eleventh will be diverse and the prince from that nation will speak great things against the Almighty. Felipe Borbon Carlos fits with the amount of letters in his name, 6-6-6. He was born within months after Israel took over Jerusalem in 1967. Israel wasn’t really Israel without Jerusalem. I also just have a strong gut feeling about him.

    I hope I answered your questions to your satisfaction. There are other blogs I’ve written about the election of grace. I am glad you appreciate that I write with a different perspective and write about things that most teachers won’t touch. That is because of their fear due to the lack of understanding. They’re afraid of questions corroborated by the written word that fly in the face of their traditional doctrine. I make sure I do what I feel God wants me to do. What I write about and the point of view I have I make sure comes from what I learned when tracing things back to the original Hebrew and Greek. If you haven’t started doing that yet, I suggest doing so. It will open your eyes. Good questions. Write me anytime. God bless.

  14. Christian says:

    Jesse, I too am a big advocate of grace and God’s sovereign choice. However in reading through Romans 11, I do not believe that Paul is trying to infer that Gods remnant is 7000, but that he was giving an example of the Lord reserving a remnant to Himself. I will try to look at your previous blogs for more insight on this point. I don’t want you to have to rewrite things you have already stated.
    Where do you get that this is a peace covenant and specific to Israel? “With many” in Dan. 9:27 may imply the whole world for all we know.
    I would also suggest that the ten horns, toes, kings represent the G group which will soon have its’ tenth nation( China) and as no matter of coincidence has three EU nations and one EU head representative, whom during his presidency of the EU in theory controls the other three heads.
    In regards to Phil, I believe that Daniel 11:21 starts the description of the antichrist and his reign. In turn, at first I thought there may have been a conflict with Phil, do to his royalty. Since studying in the Lexicon, however I believe that it would more properly read “honor of kingship”. I’m ok with the gut feeling, and agree that there is far more to it. His lineage and to me the year he was born is quite significant.

  15. Jesse Norman II says:

    Paul was referring to the Lord reserving to Himself 7000 men known as the remnant, just like you said. There will be a time for them to live. The context of what the 7000 are written in is about the election of grace. There would be no other reason why Paul would bring up that conversation at that point. The words “reserved” and “remnant” are key there. If those 7000 were on Earth at the time of Elijah, then Paul saying on his own that there is still a remnant according to the election of grace. The election of grace is the name of the act that God chose these people. “Election” is the Greek word “εκλεκτοσ” (ek-LEK-tos) which means chosen. They couldn’t be flesh descendants of people who were alive at that time, or else it wouldn’t be by God’s grace. In Revelation 11:13 seven thousand people die in that earthquake late into the tribulation. I know those are the same seven thousand people God has reserved to Himself for the last generation. Let me make one thing clear, God would not keep 7000 men and not allow them to ever live. God sends back two messengers who have not died because of their importance. He needs as many true believers as He can get. He absolutely would not just keep 7000 souls with what is at stake. He has reserved them for a specific time. Remember, the rest were blinded which implies that those 7000 will live.

    I cannot get into everything. I only write what I feel God allows me to write. Everytime I go too far, He taps me on the shoulder and I realize I cannot write that and erase it before I publish it. The things I’ve written to you are very advanced. Don’t think with your head. Think and pray upon it with your soul. I’m sure God will lead you to some sort of resolution if you are ready and willing to hear it. I pray it will come to you.

  16. Jesse Norman II says:

    Correction: “If those 7000 were on Earth at the time of Elijah, then Paul saying on his own that there is still a remnant according to the election of grace.” Also Paul stated on his own that these people were not chosen for any work they’ve done in this life, or else it wouldn’t be called grace. Showing faith is a work, right? Not showing faith is a bad work. How can they be chosen by grace if they showed their faith in this life? I meant to add “election of grace wouldn’t make sense since that election happened before this age.”

    • MorganBerry says:

      7)
      THE NUMBER OF SPIRITUAL PERFECTION. Seven days in a week. Seven colors in the spectrum. Seven of the 10 commandments begin with the word “not.” There are 7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 parables in Matthew, and 7 promises to the churches. There are 7 “eternals” in Hebrews which are: A priest for ever (1:6); Eternal salvation (1:9); Eternal judgment (6:2); eternal redemption (9:12); eternal spirit (9:14); eternal inheritance (9:15); and everlasting covenant (13:20). Jesus said 7 things on the cross: 1) Luke 23:34 “Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” And they divided up his clothes by casting lots; 2) Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise”; 3) Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” — which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”; 4) John 19:26 “When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, “Dear woman, here is your son”; 5) John 19:28 “Later, knowing that all was now completed, and so that the Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, “I am thirsty.” 6) John 19:30 “When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit”; and 7) Luke 23:46 “Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.” “Hallelujah” occurs 28 times or 4 x 7. “Hosanna” occurs 7 times. “Milk” occurs 49
      times or 7 x 7. “Abaddon” occurs 7 times. “After the order of Melchizedek” occurs 7 times

      10)
      THE NUMBER OF DIVINE PERFECTION. There are 10 commandments (Ex. 20); 1/10 of your income is a tithe; the were 10 plagues on Egypt (Ex. 9:14ff); 10 x 10 silver sockets formed the foundation of the Tabernacle (Ex 38:27); There are 10 “I AM”‘s spoken by Jesus in John: 1) I am the Bread of Life (6:35); 2) I am the Bread of Life which came down from heaven (6:41); 3) I am the Living Bread (6:51); 4) I am the Light of the world (8:12); 5) I am One that bears witness of Myself (8:18); 6) I am the Door of the sheep (10:7,9); 7) I am the Good Shepherd (10:14); 8) I am the Resurrection and the Life (14:6); 9) I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life (11:25); and 10) I am the True Vine (15:1,5).

      3)
      THE NUMBER OF DIVINE PERFECTION. The Trinity (god head if you believe the three are separate beings as i do) consists of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There are three qualities of the universe: Time, Space, and Matter. To exist (except for God), all three are required. Each quality consists of three elements. Therefore, we live in a trinity
      of trinities.

      to make my point:

      10X10X10X7= divinely perfected in every way.

      7000 isn’t a literal number. just like the 144,000 isn’t. the number is used to describe the nature of those people. just like 666. the beast consists of an unholy trinity/godhead. 6-satan 6-the false prophet 6- the antichrist.

      so Satan leads it as he is the source of the “miracles” and he considers himself an equal to god. The one world order consists of a political and a religious side. so in my opinion… the false prophet will lead the spiritual part and the antichrist will lead the political under the direction of their “god” ie. Satan.

      • Jesse Norman II says:

        7000 and 144,000 are literal numbers. I think you’re overthinking or at the very least thinking without discipline. I know about the 7000 and how they were chosen. I know what they did to be chosen. There have been others of the election who have lived in previous generations, but 7000 were reserved for the final generation. The 144,000 were also divided by twelve 12,000 person tribes, while the tribe of Manasseh replaced the tribe of Dan. Manasseh was the son of Joseph, the greatest of the sons of Jacob. God wouldn’t enumerate these things and have them not come to pass. Another thing you’ve misperceived is about the Antichrist. He dies in the midst of the tribulation and Satan replaces him. The Antichrist is the rider of the white horse. Satan is the rider of the pale horse. He is named Death and Hell will follow him. Think with some patience and discipline. Many of the greatest mysteries of the Bible are clouded only by overthinking.

  17. issown says:

    I think its felipe carlos, watch video

  18. issown says:

    watch this video also and some of the others

  19. Christian says:

    Jesse, I appreciate that you substantiate positions with the word and not theory. I also believe that Christianity would be better off if believers would read scripture and pray, rather than being spoon fed feel good babble. In my opinion, we as a church have been very carefully set up in order that we would not recognize or care that we are the last generation. Anyone with a prophetic gift is being compared to all whack jobs that have come about recently. I have much to share but am concerned about doing so on a public forum. I’m also a little concerned that I know little of you core doctrinal positions. I’m thinking you are a Christian, premillenial, post-tribulation, hyper Calvinist, but that’s just a guess!

    • Jesse Norman II says:

      I’m glad you appreciate my efforts to explain things the way I do. There is the written Word, and only the written Word in my opinion. Anytime one goes off the track of the written Word and start going off into their own little world, then they’re most likely deviating away from God’s true meaning. We have the written Word for a reason.

      As far as being compared to whack jobs who have taken Christianity hostage, that’s the way it’s supposed to be in the last days. People who look up to these false teachers will be led astray and out of the clutches of their false teachers when the time is right.

      I am non-denominational. I don’t even go to church. I have a King James Bible and a Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance, and that’s all I need. There is no way I could go to a church and listen to someone butcher God’s word with traditional babble and just sit there. I could ask just about any of them questions that their traditional doctrine could not answer with any trace of confidence. I had a debate with some pastor online a while back that didn’t know the New Testament was originally written in Greek. Another pastor defending him said that I put more faith in the Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance than I do the Bible. The Strong’s IS the Bible. It traces every single word in the KJV back to the original languages, therefore it’s God’s pure Word when you use this book. At that point, I realized how lost some of these teachers truly were and how even more lost their students had to be. They each had their flock. Those labels such as “premillennial” and “post-tribulation” I don’t know very much about. I know what they are, it’s just that I am 100% self-taught.

      I have more than just strong beliefs that we are in the second of three ages. An age is just a period of time that has a beginning and an end. As is written in the original Greek, once Jesus returns that ends this age. Not the world. He will return with His saints, which is any Christian (Ephesians 1:1) and reign upon Earth for a thousand years. Satan will be in the bottomless pit also during that millennium. Once that period of time is over, Satan is loosened from his prison and the dead are removed from the Temple. Satan will again try to deceive everyone outside the saints. Anyone who is deceived will try to make war with the saints, but God stops them and ends that age. Then the books are opened. Then judgment is given. When keeping in mind that Jesus’ return ends this age, Revelation 20 then can make some sense. If not, then there’s no way one can make sense out of it. Always also keep in mind Ecc. 1:9 “…there is no new thing under the Sun.” It says what it means. I’m not new. You’re not new. Our creation upon Earth is not new. Only this flesh is. What happened in the previous age is the base for us being where we are today.

  20. Christian says:

    Jesse, Peter who Jesus said he would build the church on, had to be accountable to Paul in regards to the gentiles. He had to have taken Jesus words out of context. I too believe there is a special elect who come to life to reign with Christ for the thousand years. As of now, I do not believe there is a specified number in the word. I will study and pray. Thanks

  21. Jesse Norman II says:

    Peter and Paul just had a difference of opinion.A special elect have more power and responsibility in the next age, but all will be here in the next age. Any saint will reign with Christ in the next millennium. As is written in Ephesians 1:1, any saint is merely a Christian who will not go back on their faith. There were saints in Ephesus at that time. These weren’t miracle workers or prophets. They were just faithful Christians. If there were saints on Earth who are in this sinful flesh, then anyone in heaven who made the right choice (if they were even here to make a choice) that are not in this sinful flesh also have to be saints. Anyone who has died a Christian in God’s eyes is a saint, despite man’s own standards. I’m sure it pleases God none for men to come up with their own stardards and have them be higher than His.

  22. brandy says:

    I was really starting to think that you were on to something until you said that you were one of the elect. This strikes me as odd. Why would you say this, except to glorify yourself. I am taken back by this and feel like this shouldn’t have been said. In no way is it glorifying God or helping people find him. It is only glorifying you. This makes me question everything you said.

  23. Jesse Norman II says:

    You should be a lot more fair to people. A couple of points of me even having this blog to begin with is for those who also know they are of the elect, but just finding their purpose. I am hoping to have as many of the elect contact me, being that I’m one of them. That is why I have in the name of my blogs as “one of the election of grace”. I have had a few contact me just because they found the title of this blog. In private emails, a couple of them have asked me questions about what they’re going through. Since I’ve already gone what they’re going through, I am able to give the best advice possible. The prophets of the past indeed called themselves as prophets. Were they glorifying themselves? Would you go to Jeremiah and ask why is he glorifying himself? God has already glorified me because He chose me to be one of the elect before the age started. I know I am. Don’t let my description of myself speak for me. Read what I write and go from there. If you choose to see me as one of the elect or not, it’s not for me to argue or care. I am what I am and I have a job to do.

  24. brandy says:

    This is how I understand it, the elect are Jews, their eyes have been blinded an only by the election of grace will they be saved, the bible says that God has saved for himself 7000, are you Jewish? I have to question what you say, but it is not my place to judge you, it is Gods. What makes you say you are one of these elect? What have you been through in your life that is so special? I have battled demons and only through my faith in God have I come out a live. I know things that no one else knows, only through Gods gifts. The reason I say you are boastful is because you don’t give God the glory for what ever it is that you do. What sets you apart from eveyone else? I am not trying to be argumenative, I just want to find out the truth and will do it however I can. Please, explain to me how you would know you are one of the elect? I have found out many things during my research, and feel like if you were one of the elect, you should know these things too, but you don’t. I have read the rest of your blog, I spent hours doing so last night and still feel like something is off. I am sorry if this upsets you or you feel like I am chalanging you but until I feel that this is right I have to ask questions.

  25. Jesse Norman II says:

    If you’ve read other posts on my blog, you would see who the election of grace are. The election of grace are not Jews. There can be some Jews who are of the election of grace, but there are other races who are of the election of grace. The Jews are God’s elect race, not the election of grace. Those seven thousand who are of the elect were not living at that time. The proof of that is in two things. One, how does God reserve to Himself anyone? If they were alive, then they are no longer reserved because they were here. There are only two that God let live and then reserved them because they never died. That’s Elijah, who was taken up by a whirlwind, and Enoch who was taken by God. Second, which proves my point further is what Paul added when he reiterated that conversation between God and Elijah by saying there is a remnant according to the election of grace. If there was a remnant when Paul wrote that, then they would be over 900 years old. God has dispersed the election of grace throughout this age, but for the last generation there will be 7000 of God’s elect. The chosen Jews are the 144,000 who will remain in Israel preparing the way. If there are only 7000 of the election of grace, then who are these 144,000? At some point in the last generation, the election of grace will be gathered in Israel and they will die. If this is the last generation, then I will die amongst them in the waning months of the tribulation. Concentrate on the word “reserved” and think how God reserves to Himself a person. Ba’al was more than just a pagan god, and have written about that as well.

    What have I been through in my life to make me one of the election of grace? Nothing. There is nothing any one of the election of grace has ever done in this flesh that earned them the title of God’s elect. The election of grace happened before this age started. Later in Romans 11, Paul explained that these people were not chosen for any work they have done in their life, otherwise it would not be called grace as to why they were chosen.

    How do I know I am one of the election of grace? God told me not long after I answered my call. I had no choice to answer my call or study my tail off. God forced me to. I know 100% I am one of the true election of grace. There is no way I am not. I have to say that what I got from your point of view of the election of grace is better than what I usually get from people who think that every Christian in one of the election of grace.

    You said that I’m not glorifying God. My whole life is about glorifying God. If He didn’t want to give our creation another chance with a way out of everlasting punishment, then I wouldn’t be here. Neither would any of the election of grace. God could have ended everything before He created the human flesh and pronounced judgment upon all then, but His greatness decided to create this human flesh as a way out through his Messiah. A chance given to this unfaithful creation. Only several thousand never bowed their knee, and only they were judged upon permanently among our creation. For His will to be carried out, they too would have to be put in this sinful human flesh because if they weren’t made to live also, this creation wouldn’t stand a chance. Only through His elect can His word be written. You say you know things. I won’t go any further than this. Take what I’ve written and not judge them with your mind, but with your soul. The demons I have battled are not of my own making, but God’s. I was born with a disease to keep me humble. With this disease, I am tortured all day, everyday and I’m happy to take it. It was His will. The fruits of my labor in this life and the previous one are sealed up for me. I am not allowed to fail Him.

    You say it is not your place to judge me, but yet you did. Who are you to say I don’t give God the glory? If I wasn’t giving Him the glory, none of these posts would be written. I wouldn’t be trying to gather some of the elect to help them on their path. I had no one helping me except for God’s constant pushing. If I can help them on their way, then I’m doing part of my job. It is God’s place to judge me. He already has. When the Wicked One comes and miraculously looks like a dead man has risen, I will not bow my knee to him. When he goes to deceive the world and cause them to call him “god”, I will not. There is no new thing under the Sun. It would take a lot more than this to challenge me, with all due respect. I’ve thrown a lot of breadcrumbs out there for you. Go and find your way if it’s God’s will to raise your ceiling with some patience and hard work if you even have one. I will not reply to any comment on any of these subjects I have written here. I’ve gone plenty far enough.

  26. brandy says:

    I am sorry that you feel I have judged you, I feel as thought I have not. If I have please forgive me. Is it wrong for me to yearn to know more? I have tried to be kind and let Gods love show through me and feel that you only return answers to me with resentment. I am very sorry to hear of your health problems and hope you have peace. I know that I have many things to figure out and to learn and that even though I have known God for 20 years, I am still just beginning to break the ice. I will continue to study and ask other questions but feel that I can no longer ask you for your opinion, because I feel that you have some problem, that you don’t want to help me. I will continue on my search and hope that God blesses you in your life. As far as the tribulation, in a way I am so sorry for you, I know I will not have to endure the pain and punishment but you being Gods “elect” will suffer. I know it is Gods will but my heart goes out to you.

  27. Jesse Norman II says:

    If you want to gain more wisdom, then being honest with yourself is a good start.

    -“I have found out many things during my research, and feel like if you were one of the elect, you should know these things too, but you don’t.”

    -“In no way is it glorifying God or helping people find Him. It is only glorifying you.”

    Those are judgments, no matter how you explain them.

    If you ask questions in a respectful manner, then if I feel I’m allowed to answer them, I will. If you feel like you’re just beginning to break the ice, then God is motivating you to break it. I’ve been there. You shouldn’t project questions you have about yourself onto others, such as looking for a way out with the explanation that only Jews can be one of God’s election of grace. Remember, Paul said the elect has obtained that which Israel has not but has not cast away His people, meaning they are still God’s elect race. What the elect have obtained from their birthright is knowing things before they even find the proof of them. At the beginning of one of the elect’s lives, they are ahead of those who’ve read for decades. While everyone else can only have faith, hopefully very strong faith, it can only be faith. The elect indeed do know things, which you have rightly said. I see that you study on your own a great deal. What you came up with that there were only seven thousand Jews that were of the election of grace I don’t think is taught by anyone. It’s wrong, but it’s a process in learning. Most Christian “teachers” feel every Christian is one of the election of grace, which is incredibly foolish. How can they say that choosing Christ is equal to God choosing them? There is a reason why Paul reiterated that conversation at that time when explaining the election of grace and then numbering them. That doesn’t produce any questions from those teachers.

    You say you know things. If you do, then go know them. The best I can do is give you advice on what to use or ask questions to your questions you haven’t thought of before. Get yourself a Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance if you haven’t done so already. In order to truly understand God’s word, you’ll need it unless you know Hebrew and Greek. Another thing is opening the Bible and read it like you’ve never heard anything before. You don’t know the characters. You don’t know any of the doctrine. Those are God’s words. Let Him explain Himself to you.

    I appreciate the sympathy, but it is my honor to go through it. I’m able to walk, think, and speak. I have issues with pain and fatigue, but overall I feel okay. I just can’t do much. For now, this is what God wants me to do anyway even if I was healthy. The time will come when there will be other things for me to do. If you have questions, then ask them respectfully. If they’re contentious, I don’t mind as long as it’s still respectful.

  28. Jesse Norman II says:

    Here’s a link to something you might find interesting.

    https://jnormanii.wordpress.com/2008/08/27/the-difference-between-lucifer-and-satan/

  29. Rachel J. Berndt says:

    When I was very young, I dreamed I was reading from a college text book while my fellow students were reading from their own second grade readers. I opened the college text book, that was not revealed to anyone else in the room, and saw on the page 8 faces of different men that were allotted equal space on the page. There were 4 faces of men in the top row and 4 faces of men in the bottom row. The last man’s face began to form a halo over his head that was one of the most golden lights. The halo began to get bigger and bigger. Soon, the man’s face became so three-dimensional that his face came out from the page and became real life. Underneath his name was written a german title that I believed to be translated “priest”. The man was handsome, rugged, tan, and a hero looking man. One who could save the day. The other men’s faces were of specific times in history. But, the last man’s face formed a distinct light that grew upon him until a full culmination of light appeared. Then, the dream ended. I would recognize his face if I saw him today. If I see him today anywhere, I will tell everyone that I can that I have seen his face and say who he is. for all of our benefit.

  30. Rachel J. Berndt says:

    At the end of the dream, I remember the dream ending in a way that no other dream has ever ended that I dreamt. I felt as though God had “pulled the plug” on the dream. That it ended in less than half of a second. Unlike the other dreams that seemed to phase out maybe in 1 or 2 seconds. I believe this to be because the reign of that last man, the 8th man, will be cut off as the way this dream ended. So abruptly that there is no time to even gasp.

  31. Rachel J. Berndt says:

    when the man’s face came out 3d from the page, I saw his physique from the waist up and he mushroomed into a so-called hero-like stance. His eyes were brown. He had a red hankerchief around his neck (like in a John Wayne movie). And my view point was one beneath his eye level where the frame of his jaw line was a point of accent in his appearance. His face looked strong and gentle at the same time. He was wearing a shirt that was a collared button down and fit for a cowboy to wear who ropes cattle. He seemed naive in a way that any forces of light were given to him, but the forces of light were given to him, until the abrupt ending of the dream. His reign seemed to die right when the dream ended.

  32. Rachel J. Berndt says:

    The anti-christ will appear “Christ-like”. He will play the part of a priest to go into the Temple to utterly blaspheme Jesus Christ in the deepest way possible to cause the Abomination of Desolation. In order for things to ever become in a state globally where that could ever happen, the anti-christ would prove himself to many many people groups as the hero of the entire world, not just to one or two or three or four countries. He must have global domination by way of the demonic powers that are given to him from satan and permitted by God to test whether men will follow after this man’s claim to be “good” (hence the halo) or whether they will cleave to the Only Holy God of Israel. Deception is not really inevitable when one cleaves to God with the whole heart, but men have not proven themselves with the subject I mentioned in the 1 note I have on facebook: the penetrating, piercing, wounding power of self-knowledge. After that test, you will have proved yourself worthy because you are, in fact, abandoning your deepest you that has your highest potential for deception lodged deep within. And, you are letting that all go…. not in a trite surrender, but in a proven one. A surrender that God will seal up if you choose to stay with God and His Truth alone. Only then will you be at your highest chance to be caused “worthy to escape” what is coming.. (i will reference that).Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. ~Luke 21:36.

  33. Rachel J. Berndt says:

    God gave Annie visions in the Spirit and this is just one of those visions, but one I have particularly chosen because it is so personalized to each individual: Annie, the woman who would often be given revelation in the heavenlies and through great supernatural visions in the Spirit, did have a vision which she entitled THE POWER OF SELF-KNOWLEDGE.

    {I am choosing this vision amongst all of the rest because this one has the ability to get you to an understanding that God will take liberties in His methodologies of dealing with the innermost part of the believer and down into the recesses of the person that reveal hidden dark things in somebody. We all know that the heart is desperately wicked above all things. But, after God reaches down into the innermost parts of somebody and deals with, in His own chosen way, the hidden things, God will bring with these dealings the prize. The prize is a result that will occur inescabably and indisputably when He gets as far as He does, at least even to a certain measure in His dealings. That prize is the prize of wisdom. You do not automatically get wisdom and superior knowledge}.

    The vision:

    In prayer today the Lord showed me a people on the earth below upon whom He was pouring out a certain power that came forth from Him with great light. This power was most penetrating and would burrow its way through, as it were, into the innermost parts like some type of perforating machine. Coming forth in great might, it brought with it the power of a strong force.

    This brilliant light-power was the power of self-knowledge or the ability to know and perceive ones own inner self–and inner revelation of light and truth. This power was cold, penetrating and wounding and would pierce through defenses and through flesh into the interior. Although it was a wounding, piercing force, yet withal it was not destructive; it was painful and not the most welcome blessing sent forth from God. But still it was sent forth from God and came as a blessing to these people. It had the power to illuminate the inner recesses of the heart and reveal the hidden things therein in the spirit of truth, discovering all hidden deceits and bringing them forth unto the light.

    This power was accompanied by another power–the power of wisdom. This second power was neither cold nor wounding; rather, it was warm and filled with tender love. The light that accompanied this power of wisdom was not severe but rather was a healing light which brought healing to all wounds caused by the penetrating, piercing power of self-knowledge. I saw that the power of wisdom and the healing light worked together to bring forth enlightened understanding and dissolve confusions and deceits. Not only did they bring forth healing and understanding but, at the same time, they also worked a wonderful transformation in the inner being. This was not an instantaneous operation but was prolonged and ever increased in its perfections, working through a process and during a period of time. This process was universal to all of those to whom He sent it and it was continuous and not an intermittent process.

    I also understood that the majority of the people rejected the cold, penetrating power of self-knowledge. They were afraid of its operation and of the pain that came with it. Therefore, they were incapacitated or unable to receive the accompanying power of wisdom and of healing light because they could only receive the power of wisdom as they allowed the power of self-knowledge to first do its needed work.

    The act of rejecting the power of self-knowledge sent forth from God closed the understanding and it remained dark, enclosed within its own darkness of deceit. This rejection also closed the people to the second healing, enlightening power of wisdom. It could not find entrance, neither could it function in them.

    • Mrs T says:

      rachel
      do you mean facing your deepest self.if so i’ve been there and it was not pleasant. i thought i would not get through it. this happened when i accepted christ in my life, is this why i went though it. is this what it meant?
      mrs t

  34. Rachel J. Berndt says:

    I apologize for not responding in an adequate timely way. I just now saw your question. In answer to your question, I believe so. I believe that yes, it was when you accepted Christ into your life and this piercing, wounding penetrating power of self-knowledge had started a work within you which you recognized to be Christ’s call to you to come to Him to abandon your self to Him and accept Him as your Lord and your Saviour. The ability for God to work in somebody’s life in this particular way, with this cold wounding to cause self to be made apparent and the deepest things inside of man that are there because of our humanity deep within us that God does not want them to be there, is an ability that God has with only a very few people because people are afraid that if God does come to them and reveal to them this self-knowledge, that they will sink within Him dealings with them and come to be too wounded and dismayed and turn from the revelation of what self really is and how badly it is as God sees it. I believe that these processes that God brings His own through where the ability to have self-knowledge was brought on by the very ability of God to wound His own and penetrate through flesh to get to the core of the person and to establish His “God-ness” into the deepest part of the person, where the person has truly been made to become the very righteousness of God through Christ Jesus, where great and vast amounts of Wisdom from God are deposited and kept safe. It is not that they may not be tempted to sin, but sinning is increasingly more and more rare in the believer who has allowed God the very priviledge of coming into the very depths of the believer and working into them something that caused great grief, great wounding, great piercing, great penetration, and a devastating revelation of the self and of the sinful nature deep within man. What is the upswing? The upswing of things is that once God has what He desires in the believer and He is content, then this great amount of Wisdom is deposited then through the warmth of His Love, where a believer is within the Shadow of the Almighty, having taken on all processes and NOT rejected each pathway of pain and revelation of self, that is so easy to do,as the self-protective humans we are and still tend to be, even when we know it is defeating to be self-protective over our flesh and fleshly habits. Let us have all of us and allow God to take us all down the road where the revelation of self and the penetrating and very piercing power of self-knowledge may have its fullest and most mature workings the believer could have ever previously and initially known. Like the Shulamite maiden, may all believers go about and look for their God in the streets and in the by-ways and keep on looking for Him until they find Him. Then, we, as the believers, invite God to bring Him into the place where He can conceive through us and birth through us His Love, His workings, the fruits of the Holy Spirit and where our love is brought into a constant state of “honeymooning” with Him where His Love is our constant delights and He can pour in much Wisdom from Heaven in very high ways in the Spirit, where we can combat demonic Strondholds in the earth, while still maintaining a very deep love-relationship with our Father, though He be in Heaven, He is also ever-present with us, we who have allowed Him to pierce us through with the revelation of self, which goes much deeper than even our initial acceptance of Christ, at the first. His workings go on and on until He is satisfied with the outcome of the work He has made each of us into, but which will always include an embarking on a journey where the revelation of self is made deeply apparent. Job turned so quickly within himself when God revealed Himself in the whirlwind above and Job had deep revelation of self. Therefore he did repent in dust and ashes so easily. But, it was only once there was a revelation of self. To receive an on-going revelation of self, we must first have God revealed to us. God cannot be revealed until we search and search as the Shulamite maiden did UNTIL SHE FOUND HIM. God is not made readily apparent right away. He waits. He waits until He has made it apparent that He has met up with the believer and there is no doubt. There was no doubt in her anymore. She took Him. She took Him to the place where she was conceived, to the depths of the origin of man and to the place where her entire existence was founded upon the deepest revelation of God and the place where Love was complete in the deepest union: the one between God and the believer who comes to Him by Christ Jesus and by faith and total surrender.

  35. EyeonGod says:

    Hi again Jesse! I am still here perusing your site since you’ve suggested that read one of articles in your response to my comment earlier, and I’ve found some very interesting gems, thanks for your time and dedication in bringing those topical subjects to us! I’m always seeking to mature more and more in God’s Truths, for I believe His Word to be pregnant, it just grows and grows until the birth of a New Age! That’s how I came across your site! I really do appreciate much of what you I’ve read so far!

    Regarding the Antichrist…I’ve understood God’s Word to mean that he is not going to be born’ed of woman, that he is a Supernatural / Celestial being, (cherub that covered the Mercy Seat before his fall) who will be cast out from Heaven by Michael, will come to earth Peacefully and Prosperously with his supernatural powers intact, knows that he’ll have just a short time for that tribulation, his grand show will include bringing down fire from heaven (lightning)…he will be performing miracles in the sight of men, with all his great deception, to make the world think that he is Christ Yeshua, or to non-Christians, they may believe that he is their respective deity, and I’m sure that it’s not going to take much more to make believers out of atheists with such a performance! Except for one thing…that God commanded that he is not to touch His Elect, (those who have the seal of God *in* their foreheads, their minds)…Ezekiel 28, Isaiah, Revelation and other parts of the Scriptures tells us this about him, and he will do his many wonders quite convincingly, so it’s no surprise that the whole world is going to whore after him, except for those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, God’s Elect and the Overcomers!

    Just sharing, comparing, and quite open to learning something new everyday, once it aligns with God’s Written Word, for Christ had already let us know that He has foretold us all things! I also understand that we were all created in the image of God and the angels, so the Antichrist will look human, just like Christ looked exactly like God, for He was created in His Image, John 14:9.”….he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;”

    Satan was made the full pattern, (extremely handsome) and very intelligent as told in Ezekiel 28 and other scriptures…certainly not a hideous, red pitch forked devil like some paintings depict him to be, but quite the opposite as far as those are concerned! I believe that this may surprise many who are not aware of the Scriptures regarding this! Hopefully the Truth will get to them one way or another before it’s to late!
    God Bless!

    • Jesse Norman says:

      There will be a human Antichrist, who is also called the Beast in Revelation, because there are three different entities specifically mentioned to be put in the bottomless pit: the Beast, the False Prophet, and Satan. Only Satan gets to come out for a period of time, but goes back in where the Beast and False Prophet are already (Rev. 20:10).

      One must also keep in mind concerning those who are sealed that the church of Philadelphia will not only be kept from the temptation that everyone else will endure, but the hour (Rev. 3:10). The seal *in* their foreheads is something I agree with, because this reference and exact explanation was from Exodus 13:9 and 13:16. Having said that, because some of these people of the church of Smyrna will be imprisoned during the hour must be identified somehow, I do believe there will be a physical sign that these people were sealed.

      • jane says:

        the church of philadelphia seal means…. these people will know what’s going on and not be caught off guard mentally though they will still be under the trial of the evil ones. through this trial God will know who is genuine and who is not. the philadelphia church will be aware of the time and that we are in tribulation where the lawless ones attempt to be God so all earth will be under tribulation by they who reject God’s commands. awareness of the time is what sets philad. apart.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        I have heard this from Pastor Arnold Murray, but it is clearly written they will be kept from the hour of temptation. If Murray was right, then it would say they would only be kept from being tempted, not the hour. I only go by what is written, and this is clearly written.

      • jane says:

        in this passage, i see this TRIAL as applying to those who have not trained themselves in righteousness and are not discilpined. the philadelphia church has mastered this yet they will still be subject to the devils wrath but they are NOT TEMPTED BY HIS DEVICES. that’s the difference.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        I’m sorry, but that doesn’t explain “I will keep you from the hour of temptation…”. This also continues saying it will try all on the earth. Even the faithful will be tried. Is not the church of Smyrna tried, which is the only other church Christ didn’t speak against? If Smyrna is tried, how aren’t other Christians?

      • jane says:

        sorry but i am missing your point jesse? the only benefit of the philadelphia church is they trained themselves in righteousness so will not fall prey to being tempted to do evil to be rich, powerful, beautiful etcetera; they’ve overcome temptations of the prides of life and the ego

      • Jesse Norman says:

        My point isn’t my point. Revelation 3:10 Jesus said the church of Philadelphia will be kept from the HOUR of temptation which will try all on earth. The church of Smyrna isn’t trained? Revelation 2:10 Jesus says some of them will be imprisoned and suffer tribulation ten days and then be tried. Of the seven churches Jesus spoke of, the church of Smyrna was one of two He did not speak against. Smyrna must be wise, don’t you think? Yet they will be tried.

      • jane says:

        if we look at the bible historically, no one ever escaped tribulation not even noah who must of wondered if he would ever see land again. the smyrna church may be NOT TRAINED IN RIGHTEOUSNESS but still be good people who are subjected to evil rulers whims as they stand their ground on issues, as has occurred in many nations around the world. so they are not tempted to be evil TRIAL but will be persecuted for taking a stand TRIALS on principle, against wrongs, so they are similar to the philadelphia church. the only escape for philadlephia is THEY’VE TRAINED THEMSELVES TO SERVE GOD OVER MEN…..SO THEY ARE NOT PREY TO BE TEMPTED OF BY THE DEVIL….THEY WILL RESIST just as the bible says “they who know God will resist the antichrist”.;they will not go along with his schemes or operation.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        You are just fooling yourself to hold onto your preconceived thoughts. You saying no one ever escaped tribulation means you do not believe Jesus’ own words. What does “hour” mean to Him, not to you? He said “hour”, as in a period of time. How do you know the tribulation of the church of Philadelphia is during the tribulation for everyone else? Maybe their tribulation is beforehand. Smyrna may not be trained in righteousness, but good people? Jesus said to those of the five churches He spoke against that He would reward them if they didn’t fall in line with those churches. Do you think God is going to give the responsibility of testifying on His behalf to those who are not righteous? Jesus did not say to the churches of Ephesus, Thyatira, Pergamos, Laodicea, and Sardis that some of them will stand trial. What Jesus said to the church of Smyrna was the same exact thing He said in the gospels about some being cast into prison to give testimony. Tell me how does the church of Philadelphia avoid this trial that Smyrna goes through if they are here.

      • jane says:

        i am not trying to offend you but fail to see your point you are making? do you think only philadelphia will escape? as for smyrna, they may be righteous but the philadelphia church is trained in it; that
        s the difference so they will still be in tribulation they just wont be viewed as easy prey for temptations like the laodacean church and the world will submit to tempting..

      • Jesse Norman says:

        I don’t think you can offend me 🙂 You keep giving me the temptation but ignore the hour. Jesus could have said “I will keep you from temptation”, but He didn’t. If He simply said that, I would not only concede the point, but I wouldn’t have offered to begin with. I take in Jesus’ own words while not ignoring one of them. An hour is a period of time. How does one avoid a period of time of anything? Forget the temptation… how does one avoid the time of anything?

      • jane says:

        so your point on this topic is what? just state what you believe so we may agree

      • Jesse Norman says:

        I think I made my point clear. The church of Philadelphia will not be on earth at all after the sounding of the last trump, which removes the mystery of God. That period of time between the end of the mystery of God and Jesus’ return is the hour of temptation.

      • jane says:

        so you believe the philly church will be out of here and then the tribulation starts??

      • Jesse Norman says:

        Nope, I believe they will go through most of it, but the hour of temptation is not the enter tribulation period.

      • jane says:

        when do you think the tribulation will commence? is it now?

      • Jesse Norman says:

        Nope, not yet. This seven year period in Revelation is divided in half. The “covenant with many” the Antichrist confirms is also supposed to last for seven years, but is also divided in half. It must be the same seven year period. Since covenants never come from times of peace or prosperity, there must be tough times beforehand. The Antichrist confirming the covenant with many I believe is the rider of the white horse. Not unless there is a world collapse can there form a world government afterward.

        Jesus said to pray that our flight not be in the winter or on the sabbath day. This has nothing to do with the rapture. The flight in winter is a reference to when birds fly south. If a bird isn’t prepared, it will go through the cold of winter. After the covenant is confirmed, the world will be like it was after WWI, which was dubbed “the war to end all wars”. Obviously it wasn’t. People will think we have solved all of our problems. They will be at rest, and that is what the sabbath means- “rest, intermission”. The beginning of the tribulation will be the complete opposite of what we expect it to be. Tensions will rise and halfway through the Antichrist will break the covenant.

  36. EyeonGod says:

    Jesse, you have stated: “Revelation 3:10 Jesus said the church of Philadelphia will be kept from the HOUR of temptation which will try all on earth.”

    They will be kept from the hour of temptation *because* they do not find Satan in his role as Antichrist tempting at all…in fact, they find him to be an abomination! They would not be smitten or seduced by him, since they are quite aware of his deceptions, supernatural powers and false holiness! They have the seal of God *in* their forehead…their brain/mind.

    Regarding your reference to: “Revelation 2:10 Jesus says some of them will be imprisoned and suffer tribulation ten days and then be tried.”

    Mark 13:11, the total time of tribulation for the saints and faithful is for ten (10) days. I’m sure God’s Elect can’t wait to have the Holy Spirit speak through them at that time! They will do our Father proud I’m sure! Doing otherwise will be the *unforgivable sin*…which only God’s Elect can commit.That is after they are delivered up, knowing fully well that they are standing before the abominable antichrist, and they do not allow the Holy Spirit to speak through them! But God knows His troopers well, they will see Satan for what he truly is…a deceptive, deplorable Abomination! They are looking forward to being champions for God, I have no doubt!

    • Jesse Norman says:

      I totally disagree because they are kept from the hour. Jesus could have said “I will keep you from being tempted”, but He did not. If one misses the hour, they miss the time.

      • EyeonGod says:

        Here is another point to consider regarding Smyrna and Philadelphia Jesse! Yeshua was very pleased with them both, He lets them know in different ways, that they both will be delivered up, but they both have what it takes to overcome the tribulation of Antichrist. They would not be deceived by the cheap fabrication of that imposter Antichrist. How so? Christ gave Smyrna quite a compliment, He told them that they are *rich*…well rich in what? In that they understand the seed-line of Satan, and recognize the blasphemy of those people that crept into their congregation…those Jews imposters claiming to be of Judah (Jews), but were in fact Kenites.

        When you know who Satan is, and that he comes to the earth before Christ returns, you simply cannot be tricked by Satan or his children. They possess the “Key of David” which unlocks the *mysteries* of the kingdom of heaven, shows them the true lineage of Jesus Christ through Judah while at the same time exposing the fraudulent claim to the lineage of Judah by those who go around calling themselves “God’s chosen people”, but who are neither of Judah nor of Abraham but rather are “liars and are of the synagogue of Satan.”

        In Mark 13, Jesus makes it very clear, there is a tribulation coming; and that tribulation is a deception of the truth…and Smyrna has got Christ’s seal that they are *rich* in having what it takes overcome. They are quite prepared of what Christ foretold them of in the Book of Mark 13.

        Yes Smyrna is going to be delivered up, but will overcome, and Philadelphia was told the same thing in a different way. How did Christ word it to them?

        “I also will keep thee from the hour (that hour is yet to come) of temptation (trial), which shall come upon all the world…”

        Which simply means: With that knowledge, they would not find Satan / Antichrist tempting at all…in fact, they find him to be an abomination! They would not be smitten or seduced by him, since they are quite aware of his deceptions, supernatural powers, pomp and false holiness! They both have the “Key” and their Full Gospel Armor on! 🙂

  37. EyeonGod says:

    The *Hour* is the length of time of the Tribulation of the Antichrist Jesse! We will *all* be here for that five month period if we do not pass on to our Heavenly Father before Christ second coming, as foretold in:

    Revelation 9:5 “And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.”

    Revelation 9:10 “And they had have tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.”

    Yes Jesse! Christ shortened the Tribulation of Antichrist! Oh what Love for His children! Seven years with an abominable supernatural being is way to much for us to handle! We would have been toast! Christ has shortened that period for the “Elect’s sake”.

    Matthew 24:22 “And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.”

    “Those days” are the days of this tribulation. If God did not shorten the time and reign of the Antichrist, no man in the flesh body would be spiritually saved, and not deceived by Satan the Antichrist. Daniel told us in Daniel 9:27 that this time of the Antichrist, the desolator, was one half of one week of years. That is one half of seven years, which has since been shortened to five (5) months by Christ Himself. Whew!!!

    THANK GOD for His tender mercies!

    • Jesse Norman says:

      You are forgetting to list those who are excluded from the torment who are here on earth-the 144,000 Israelites. Those are not kept from the hour. They will be here, but won’t be tormented. They will not miss the hour. The elect are the church of Philadelphia, who will miss the hour. The days are shortened for the elect’s sake, not anyone else’s. It doesn’t say the days are shortened for everyone. Jesus spoke of the shortening of days before John wrote Revelation, and John said the Tribulation would last seven years. Why would John say the Tribulation will last seven years if Jesus said the days will be shortened for everyone? God will send forth His angels to gather together His elect-the church of Philadelphia, so the days are shortened for their sake.

      • EyeonGod says:

        Jesse ~ That 144.000 will be deceived for a moment, they will come to their senses when God’s Very Elect are delivered up to the Antichrist, and the Holy Spirit speaks through them! That’s when they will figure out that they have heard that Truth before, and realize that they were deceived by the imposter, before it’s too late! They would then wait for the True Christ!

        As regarding John’s account of the Tribulation, it’s just a matter of rightly dividing God’s Word to understand it. I will get some sleep and follow up with my understanding of that God’s willing, but for now my eyes are closing down on me at this point! Keep the focus! I will resume in a few hours! It is almost 2:30 a.m.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        The 144,000 may be deceived for a moment, but it is clearly written that it is the church of Smyrna who will be delivered up, not the church of Philadelphia, who are the very elect.

      • EyeonGod says:

        Jesse ~ I think that it is important to note that the church of Philadelphia will not allow the Kenite mind of deception and confusion to take any hold in their church. They are both *equal* in praise from our Lord Jesus Christ. Both the Smyrna and Philadelphia churches have learned the “parable of the Fig tree”, and can identify the good figs from the bad figs.

        The bad figs are the Kenites and are of the synagogue of Satan, “say they are Jews, but are not”. Relating this to today, they put on verbally to be Christians, when in fact they have no faith in Christ, They don’t believe in Christ’s deity, His virgin birth, His resurrection, and in fact they don’t even hold God’s word as inspired by God.

        Why would God / Christ treat those two churches, Smyrna and Philadelphia any differently if they are of *equal* status? Our God is a righteous God.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        Who says they are equal?

  38. EyeonGod says:

    Jesse ~ Resuming where we’ve left off regarding John and the seven year tribulation. Almost wide awake now! 🙂

    First of all…It is to my understanding that no one will be “excluded” as you worded it…from the hour of temptation! All of us whom have not passed on to our Heavenly Father, will pass through the tribulation of the Antichrist! No Rapture, No escape! It is written that the whole world will whore after him, except for those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. They will be sealed with the knowledge that Antichrist comes first and with will know quite well all that will transpire at his short five month reign. They will be prepared with the *full* Gospel Armor to fight against the fiery darts of Satan’s Deceptions! They are not going to be smitten or seduced by that deceptive cheap fabrication of an imposter of Christ, they will find him to be an abomination!

    Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation (trial), which shall([that hour that is to) come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

    Note well that this verse states:”which will come upon *ALL* the world”!

    Notice where they came from…the great tribulation. They came out of the tribulation and “washed their own robes” in the blood of the Lamb. They didn’t find Satan tempting!
    That is exactly what is meant by “keep thee from the Hour of temptation”. They are currently being sealed right now as we speak…in our generation! God’s sons and daughters shall prophesy at that time when the Holy Spirit speaks through them, God’s Very Elect had stood with Him against Satan and the third of those who followed him, in the First Earth / Heaven Age…they will come through for Him again in this one! They will not bow a knee to Baal! However, they are going to be delivered up to be brow beaten by that evil deceiver! Satan knows them well, and he wants their souls on his already marked for death team (Satan and the fallen angels)! But God’s warriors have all that they need to resist…Full Gospel Armor on and in place, and they allow the Holy Spirit to speak through them! What a wonderful bunch of Christian champions! If God is for you…WHO could be against you? Praises be to His Holy Name, in Christ Jesus, Amen.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      We completely disagree.

      • EyeonGod says:

        Jesse ~ You’ve agreed that the 144,000 will be deceived for a while, how do you suppose they came out of the deception if not from hearing the Holy Spirit speak to God’s Elect who were delivered up? After all…you did say that the church of Philadelphia would escape that moment. Who helped them out of the deception?

      • Jesse Norman says:

        I said “maybe”. I have discussed that the church of Smyrna will realize the church of Philadelphia were sent by God.

    • Jose says:

      Amen brother you said it rigth.

  39. EyeonGod says:

    It is quite alright for us to agree to disagree Jesse. Even the Apostles had their moments! That should not keep us from sharing God’s Truths! It is our Father will that all would come to repentance. We should all keep working to mature in His Word. I pray that God will continue bringing all those who diligently seek His Truth to full maturity.

  40. EyeonGod says:

    Jane ~ You’ve completely lost me on that one! What????

  41. EyeonGod says:

    Jesse ~ Correction: “………how do you suppose they came out of the deception if not from hearing the Holy Spirit speak *through* God’s Elect who were delivered up?”

  42. EyeonGod says:

    Regarding Smyrna and Philadelphia…you have asked: “Who say they are equal”?

    Well…What they both did that was pleasing to God, was to teach their congregation about the Kenites who claimed to be of Judah but did lie, bit was of the synagogue of Satan, as you would see below:

    Revelation 2:8-9 “And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive (lived again); 9. I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are JEWS, and are NOT, but are the synagogue of Satan.”

    Revelation 3:7-10 “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; 8. I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it; for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9. Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are JEWS, and are NOT, but do LIE; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10. Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour (that is to come) of temptation (trial), which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.”

    “Keep thee from the hour of temptation”…means…that they held fast during that hour, when the people of the entire world were tried and chased after the desolator / Antichrist, except for those whose names were written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

    You’ve disagreed with me on this in an earlier post, regarding what is meant by “Keep thee from the hour of temptation”…but be that as it may, I’vr made a choice to respect other people’s pov when sharing God’s Word….as best as I can! 🙂

  43. EyeonGod says:

    Regarding one of your comments above in response to Jane: “flight not be in the winter or on the sabbath day” then you went on to state: “The flight in winter is a reference to when birds fly south.”

    To my understanding this verse has to do with being *harvested out of season.* Folks harvest in summer and the fall, *not* the winter. In other words, there are folks who look at the sky and tell the signs of the weather, but they don’t know by reading God’s Word, the signs of Christ’s coming. Antichrist comes first, and we should be quite aware of that, so as not to be deceived into believing that he is the True Christ Yeshua! Antichrist comes at the 6th seal, 6th trump, 6th vial…666. Our King of kings and Lord of lords comes at the 7th. A child can do the math…6 comes before 7.

    Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day.

    Why neither on the Sabbath day? Because on the Sabbath, the only distance that you could travel was just short of one mile. This is not far enough, for Armageddon will take place on Mount Zion, for “Megiddo” means “the gathering place of the crowd, and that will be where the Antichrist rules from, and that is where the destruction will be….Zechariah 14 tells us what will happen at this battle.

    Just a little sharing! 🙂

  44. Jose says:

    Well, the Antichrist, is the entity spoken in daniel, the king of fierce countenance, understanding dark sentences, an entity the abomination of desolation but in the hebrew in not a condition is an entity so he is the desolator, and he shall destroy many by peace, and he is none else but the old devil himself, he is not human he is supernatural, end he will pretend to play the role of jesus, he will look like the lamb slayed, but he will spake as a dragon, dont decive yourselfs, he is your enemy, how you going to overcome him if you dont know who he is?
    Thas is the same reason that he rebeld in the first place, he was the cherubin that coverd, what? The ark of the covenant but, he did not want to covered no more he want the mercy seat for himself, Antichrist= instead of christ. In the greek

  45. Luke says:

    i say barack obama aka barry allen owens is this antichrist. his real father was thomas beauchamp owens sr. he has a half sister nancy ruth owens who helped get and forge obama’s hawaii birth certificate. hes from clewiston florida. i dont believe in spain nor the portugal theory. i do also think pope francis the false prophet. i do think israel is an apostate run by the satanic illuminati rothschild family. i also believe ebola virus is the end game for americans as well as the whole world since these evil ppl want to depopulate us so badly. ebola kills quick which is a perfect plan for these satanist sickos. jesus is close to coming back. i say in the next 12 years or less our lord and saviour jesus christ will here on earth once again.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      My Spain or Portugal “theory” isn’t a theory. If this is the last generation, then the Antichrist must be from one of those two countries. If Israel is run by satanic illuminati, then why are such evil people against Israel?

  46. jane says:

    jesse, 1- who is the current prospect for antichrist you think ? and 2- what’s so bad about a new world order?.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      The New World Order is inevitable, whatever the actual name will be. What is bad about it is the rider of the white horse, who is the Antichrist, will conquer the world. This will be through the New World Order. In Daniel 9, it says the Antichrist will confirm a covenant with many that is supposed to last seven years, but in the midst of it he shall bring war. The tribulation period in Revelation is also seven years, and also divided into two three and a half year periods. This is the same period of time. I feel very strongly the Antichrist is the current prince of Spain.

      • ANNA JAMIES says:

        is the the felipe borbon guy? Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 02:13:27 +0000 To: moving_up77@hotmail.com

      • ANNA JAMIES says:

        does he have a twin? guy at my last apartment looked 100% identical to felipe borbon including height build, face. all Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 02:13:27 +0000 To: moving_up77@hotmail.com

      • The tribulation was shortened to 42 months. Five months for His elect! God bless! I am starting to doubt you very seriously!

      • Jesse Norman says:

        You can doubt me, but I only go by the Word. I don’t dismiss words that don’t fit my view, nor add them to make my view stronger. The tribulation period will not be shortened. It will only be shortened for the elect, and the elect alone. John, who wrote Revelation after Christ spoke of the shortening of days, spoke of the tribulation period being seven years, divided it by two- three and a half year periods. The first half won’t be so bad, but the second half will. Why I say that is because Daniel also spoke of a seven year period, but in the middle the Antichrist will cause the peace to cease. What starts the tribulation isn’t some terrible, earth-shattering plague. It will be the Antichrist confirming a seven year peace accord. Covenants almost never come from peace, but turmoil, so before the tribulation starts, there will be terrible things. When the Antichrist confirms the covenant, most of the world will be in celebration, thinking our creation has permanently solved all of our problems, like after WWI. What many people are misunderstanding is that there is a difference between the seven year tribulation period, and the five month hour of temptation. The days for the elect will be shortened by five months. The days of tribulation for everyone else will not be shortened.

  47. You are forgetting one major point. One half of the beast will come form above. So, one part will be of this world, the one religion aspect, the other will play Christ. How do you do that if you just walk up and say, I am Christ. He will come with amazement, that I assure you.

  48. Funny, the Bible was meant to be interpreted ONE way. Yet we have over 42,000 versions of Christianity. I think I will stick with the gift God gave me as a boy. God bless!

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