Unfortunately some teach that all Christians are God’s elect. They obviously ignore Matthew chapter 7, where Jesus says some of those self-described Christians won’t make it. God’s elect doesn’t mean man’s elect. God’s elect “εκλεκτός” (ek-lek-TOHS) in Greek means God’s chosen. How can a man that chose Christ say that means that God chose him? How is a man making his election to God equal to God making His election of that man? Obviously the two aren’t congruent.

There are two types of God’s elect. There is God’s elect race, which are the Jews. Then there is the election of grace, which at least many of them aren’t Jewish. In Romans 11:7, Paul explains that Israel has not obtained that which he seeks for but the election has obtained it. Earlier on Paul explains who the real elect are. He reiterates a conversation between Elijah and God in 1st Kings clearly in the context of the election of grace. God explains He has kept seven thousand men (and women) who have not bowed their knee to Ba’al. There are different words used in 1st Kings and Romans 11 describing how God has “reserved” these people, and the most congruent meaning that ties the original Hebrew and Greek is the term “left back”. So God says that He has left back, or reserved seven thousand men in Israel. Then Paul adds on his own that there is a remnant according to the election of grace. Well, with him saying that it contends greatly traditional teaching of who the election of grace are. One has to ask themselves, how does God leave back or reserve a person? Can a person who has lived in the human flesh be called “reserved” or “left back” from God’s point of view? If God has left back a person, then that person has not lived yet.

Those who have not bowed their knee to Ba’al doesn’t necessarily mean Ba’al in the terms that men have come to know this pagan deity. He was much more than just a pagan deity of the planet of Venus. God knew that. Elijah knew that. I will not explain what Ba’al truly was. That’s another lesson way down the road.

Those seven thousand are reserved for the last generation to live. When else would God reserve them? That doesn’t necessarily mean there are seven thousand total who are the election of grace. There were some that were dispersed throughout this age, hence what Paul meant by saying there was a remnant according to the election of grace. It’s just that seven thousand of them are reserved for a specific time. Those people weren’t actually in Israel at the time. They will be. Remember, even Jesus said to His disciples that there will be some standing here that will not taste of death until the kingdom of God has come to Earth. Obviously there aren’t people over two thousand years old on Earth right now. He meant there will be some on Earth that will not die until the end of this age. Likewise, those seven thousand in the final generation will be in Israel at some point. Perhaps several times.

As it is also explained in Romans 11:6, God did not choose these people for any work they’ve done in this life. Faith is a work. Showing faith is a good work. Being unfaithful is a bad work. If they didn’t bow to “Ba’al” in this life, which shows their faith, isn’t that a work? If it is a work, then they couldn’t be chosen for this work because they were chosen by grace. This should be conclusive that God chose His elect before this life. This should also prove that those that didn’t bow to “Ba’al” didn’t show their faith in this life, also meaning there is something more to the picture to Ba’al than what we’ve thought of him to be. Now there are those called by grace, but not all answer their call. Every Christian becomes one by grace, but Jesus Himself gives many examples of those who fail from the ten virgins who all know the coming of the groom, to the three servants given talents.

Further proof of this is what God told Jeremiah. God told Jeremiah that He knew him before he was in the womb. God said before Jeremiah was out of his mother’s belly He sanctified him and ordained him to be a prophet. This means that God chose Jeremiah to be His prophet without having done one thing upon Earth in the human flesh. Isn’t that what Paul explains also in Romans 11:6? That God does not choose anyone for any work they have done, or else it would not be called grace.  Not for one thing they did in this life did God choose His elect. So what did Jeremiah do to prove his worth to God? God isn’t going to create a million souls and say randomly to the next one He created “okay, you’ll be My prophet”, then create another million and repeat. Jeremiah must have proven his worth for God to choose him to be a prophet. What did he or didn’t he do? He did not bow his knee to Ba’al or anything like him before he was put in the human flesh.

How many people did Jesus speak to during His life? Many multitudes. How did He speak to them? In parables. Matthew 13:10-16 reveals corroboration of the spirit of slumber given to everyone outside the election of grace. The disciples asked Jesus why does He speak to the multitudes in parables. He said because they don’t have eyes to see or ears to hear. Isn’t that what is written later in Romans 11? Weren’t those multitudes Christians? Christians, but didn’t have it in them to have that understanding that God’s elect did. Those people had greater faith than just about anyone here on Earth now. They saw Jesus heal people. Some were even healed by Him. They heard Him speak. Whose faith on Earth now could be stronger than theirs? Still, Jesus could only speak to them in parables about the kingdom. Jesus then revealed to the disciples that they do have eyes and ears, so He was allowed to reveal the secrets of the kingdom to them. They were some of the elect dispersed throughout the age.

For many are called to be at the wedding between Jesus and His bride, which is our creation who were faithful, but few are chosen. Obviously not all that will be at this wedding will be chosen to be there. Also there will be many that were not called to be at this wedding. It says many are called but few are chosen. Not nearly all are called to be there, but the rest are chosen. Don’t be afraid to ask questions that even go against your belief system. Romans 11 explains who the real elect are, and it’s obvious it’s not every Christian like many believe. Romans 11 is the most difficult thing written in the entire Bible to understand to its fullest extent. Inside it tells you why even. The rest were blinded. Only the election of grace do not have the spirit of slumber. God has given everyone else a ceiling of understanding. Sadly though, far too many have put their own ceiling upon themselves. It’s written that it takes the sounding of the last trump before the mystery is gone. I think that says everything about the faith of men, don’t you?


  1. Roy Wolfe says:

    Are you saying there was another world age before this one.Were we in spiritual bodies? The things done in that age were remembered by GOD. There fore Jacob I loved and Esau I hated.

    • Jesse Norman II says:

      Yes, I’m saying there was another age before this one. There is no denying Romans 8, Jeremiah 1:5, and Romans 11. If you look at the 6th day creation, God said “let Us make man in Our image.” Subtly He was saying “This time, let Us make man in Our image.” Our creation already existed and called us “man”. We lived in a previous age that maybe was not meant to be an age at all. An age is a period of time that has both a beginning and an end. Satan is named Death for a reason. Were we in spiritual bodies in the last age? I’d have to say no. We were in a different flesh. While we were waiting between flesh, we were in spiritual bodies.

    • Jose says:

      The Gods elect are those who made a stand against Satan in the first world age and they are ready to do the same in this end times. They were chossen before the fundation of this world, catapult in the greek.

      • DBarso says:

        God’s elect are those chosen by Grace (Faith in Jesus Christ), not by works or race.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        Not exactly true. As Romans 8:28-30 says, they were chosen before this age began, as also in Jeremiah 1:5 says. The definition of grace biblically is an act of God. He chose these people before Jesus was born.

  2. Andrew says:

    So does this define Calvinism?

    • Jesse Norman II says:

      No it doesn’t. Predestination is only for the very few. This life would mean nothing if everything was predestinated for everyone. At the same time, there is no denying Romans 8:30..

      • allen says:

        Only gods elect are deprived of a bit of free will. They are chosen to witness before antichrist. 144,000 to be exact. Doesnt make them better or worse, this is just their destiny, they did not rebel in the first earth age when the seven thousand fallen angels did. They decided to obey god, as they will against antichrist!

      • Jesse Norman says:

        Actually the 144000 will all be of the tribes of Israel, excluding Dan. As Paul wrote of the 7000 elect in Romans 11, those aren’t Israelites. Then he said that God hasn’t cast away His people, for he too is an Israelite. The reserved elect are at least mostly Gentiles and are the church of Philadelphia who won’t be here for the hour of temptation. The 144000 Jews listed in Revelation will be.

  3. gb says:

    is there a church that teaches the truth about satan, kenites , I have not found one yet, I miss having fellow christians to worship with. I haven’t found but one person that knows the truth.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      I don’t know of any but Shepherd’s Chapel, but they’re wrong about too many things. They’re pretty good about the subjects you write of.

    • Aaron John masias says:

      I am here. I can’t help anyone. The veil is real. Some can’t see but believe they do. He will gather us.

    • Jose says:

      Yes there is, sheperd chapel in gravete ark. Pastor arnold murray

  4. gb says:

    what things are they wrong about, I do listen to Shepherd’chapel. . I’m very interested in the truth.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      Well one thing about the Kenites Shepherd’s Chapel says they cannot grow plants because of what is written of Cain not being able to. It doesn’t say anywhere that his descendants also had this curse. It’s just an assumption presented as fact. They’re wrong about the tribulation being shortened to five months. The days are shortened only for the elect by five months. The last five months is the hour of temptation. The elect, also known as the church of Philadelphia are the only ones who won’t be here for that hour. I have no idea how they came up with that one since the days are numbered in Revelation which was written after Jesus when He said “for the elect’s sake the days shall be shortened”. Adam was not created on the “eighth day”. If you look at what is written of when Adam was created, the plants were already created. This is clearly just going back to the sixth day and speaking of a specific man God created.

      • Jose says:

        God put a mark in cain, and that mark is still present in his offspring till this day, they may own farms but some else do the planting for them. And the adam of the garden of eden was created diferent than the first adam, which were hunters and fishers, and the new adam was to keep the garden, a husbanman, and with eve had the seed from umbilical cord to umbilical cord christ will come till mary. And the time of the antichrist will be five months from may to september, the time of the locoust, and if christ will not shortend the time not even the very elect will be save, thas how good he is.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        I don’t see that the tribulation period lasts for five months. In Revelation, John wrote that the tribulation will be comprised of two different three and a half year periods, and he wrote this after Jesus spoke of the shortening of the days. It also doesn’t say that Kenites, Cain’s offspring, would not be able to grow plants. That curse was given to Cain alone. I am not saying that curse doesn’t exist this day, but to assume it still exists is only an assumption.

      • I says:

        If is not five months how long do you think it will last. Christ shortenend the days otherwisw no flesh will be save, document it.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        Jesus said for the elect’s sake, the days are shortened. This is done as He says in Revelation 3:10. He didn’t say the days will be shortened for anyone else. That is another assumption made by men. The elect-the Church of Philadelphia will be kept from the hour of temptation. That is how the days are shortened for them, and only for them.

  5. Aaron John masias says:

    I am saved therefore I believe. Few will ever know this. It’s almost time.

  6. Jose says:

    Just think, 7000 are the number of the fallen angels that comes with satan when he is kick out of heaven, to earth and woe to the unhabitans of the earth cause the devil knows that he has but a short time, and when they kill the two witness in the strets of jerusalem the moment they resurrect the 7000 that satan broutht with him will die.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      There are more than seven thousand angels who fell with Satan. Remember, John in Revelation said that the dragon (Satan) took up a third part of the stars in heaven. These are the fallen, so there were more than seven thousand nephilim.

      When the two witnesses leave and the seven thousand die, there is a period of time where Satan and the nephilim are still here. That is the hour of temptation. That is the five month period John was referring to. Five months between the beginning of the hour of temptation and the end of the age.

  7. David says:

    Awesome explanation, I love this and completely agree I’ve spent a lot of hours study with a hard question, can we anyone be in gods elect? Only 7,000 are set aside out of 7 billion people so it’s not likely I’m one of those 7,000 but I’ve put a lot of work into learning the truth, if I’m not one of those 7,000 does that mean the antichrist will fool me? Or can anyone worthy beyond the 7,000 take part in gods elect? Thank you I search hard for this answer.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      I believe all but seven thousand will be fooled for at least a moment. For those who are prepared and humble as you seem to be, that moment will be a fleeting moment. I look at what Jesus said of the church of Smyrna in Revelation 2:8-11, and even though they are not of the elect, their righteousness can’t be questioned. Keep working hard and keep your humility. Who knows? You may find out you’re one of the elect afterall. If not, do not let it impede your devotion to Him. Be motivated by it so you don’t fail Him. May God bless you on your journey. I’ll pray for you.

      • David says:

        Thank you ill pray for you as well. I’ve been studying with Shepherds Chapel and he teaches no one gets hurt it’s basically all spiritual deception on the 7 trumps which I do agree it’s not like doomsday movies it’s the deception. However at the end of the Revelation chapter 9 verse 20 it says and the rest of these that were not killed by these plagues repented not. That’s makes no sense if no one is litterally not getting hurt as he teaches. But the reason I believe his teaching is it keeps saying 1/3 which is referring to 1/3 of the children that pulled away before is pulling away again being deceived. But that would mean the people that did not follow antichrist were not repenting of sins. Hopefully you have seen his teaching on this and can clear this up for me, another small thing bugging me for an answer. Thank you.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        Well Satan and his angels don’t hurt anyone, but they will have those on their side kill on their behalf. Again I refer you to what Jesus said of the church of Smyrna, and He told them to be faithful unto death. These will be people put on trial for their faith in Him, so many of them will be killed by someone. John also said he saw the souls of those who were beheaded for their witness in Jesus Christ. The plagues also do kill men because it is written quite clearly they do, whether it be the star called Wormwood or the rider of the red horse.

        These plagues will be quite theatrical, for a lack of a better term, because God wants to be the sword that divides. Those who have faith in Him will see these things and make themselves right for Him, but those who do not will just accuse believers of twisting scripture to fit the events. If you look at what Moses and the Israelites saw, as well as what Elijah did with the authority given to him, they were quite theatrical. The works Jesus performed would be incredible in anyone’s eyes, yet those of Satan still used those miracles to accuse Him. I wouldn’t worry about how some people would react if things are so obvious, like Murray has said, because I accept the hardness of men’s hearts. Less than forty days after making a covenant with God that they would not make gods for themselves, they urged Aaron to make a golden calf to be their god. This is after they witnessed the ten plagues, the dividing of the Red Sea, and the sweetening of bitter waters. And these were believers, not those of Satan.

  8. David says:

    Why does Murray choose to teach that the plagues during the 6 trumps don’t kill men? He seems very smart and is convincing plus he understands the price of teaching falsely. The points you bring up are much clearer. I think shepherds chapel does a good job it just doesn’t always add up. Another question is satan comes at the 6th seal 6th trump 6th vial, but why on the first vial are people with the mark getting sores? Along with the 5th vial satans throne and kingdom was thrown into darkness?

    • Jesse Norman says:

      I have respect for Murray, but he was also one that looked to validate his preconceived notions. There is teaching falsely and there are mistakes. A man in his position- a teacher who is not of the elect, will make mistakes and teach them. He, unlike most I have seen, didn’t teach for profit.

      The sixth vial isn’t Satan coming, but his armies marching towards Israel to meet at Megiddo. The vials are after the seven trumps chronilogically. At the sounding of the seventh trump, the mystery of God is finished (Rev 10:7). That will begin the hour of temptation, which will be the last five months of the tribulation and age. Those who took the mark of the beast are sealed with their doom. This is why the first vial has those who took the mark become marked by God. The fifth vial is just the darkness of Satan’s kingdom and the knowledge of the fallen that their time for punishment is just days away. The angels, including the fallen have incorruptible flesh. This does not mean the flesh isn’t able to sin, but decay. Imagine being able to feel pain but not die. Imagine knowing you will be put into lava, feeling the intense heat forever without melting away. This is their fate.

      • David says:

        Thank you, you have really cleared some things up for me. I actually had to read the book of Daniel 5 times before I understood it so your time means a lot to me. Hopefully if we all live righteously as possible, repent, we will be protected similar to daniel and his 3 companions and recieve a quick death (free trip to heaven) and not suffer after our trial. You seem very smart and I’m curious as where did you go to learn everything you know? That’s all my questions for now tho hopefully if I post in the future your around. May god bless you.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        Thanks for the compliments. I am a hundred percent self-taught. I don’t belong to any denomination either. I am as I put on the site- one of the elect. May God bless you too. Thanks for the blessing.

      • Starlin says:

        I love Pastor murrey. Okay so now I am a bit confused again. I do NOT want to be tricked by satan,, I do know that the fake ones comes first, so If i do not follow him, are you saying his fallen ones are going to literally KILL US? If I am STILL HERE AT THE 6th trumpet alive in the flesh, I REFUSE TO FOLLOW SATAN, what are they going to do with us? I don’t think GOD will allow them to behead us? HE LOVES US, why would he allow them to KILL US if we do NOT follow satan? I don’t understand that part, also, I know it says the times was shortened for the elects sake to five months, so if we are NOT elect, but we KNOW that satan comes first, HOW CAN WE BE DECEIVED? I know Satan is that clever, & GOOD, but again, how can we be deceived if we KNOW THE TRUTH, and chose NOT TO FOLLOW HIM? From what i read and understand, God takes care of us, only if we follow the FALSE ONE, will we have to suffer, I don’t want to wish the mountains fall on me, How can they deceive us if we are of SOUND MIND and know the difference? I am beginning to think they are poisoning us with those chem trails so we don’t know what is going on. I thought i was secure, i read, study and know the false one comes first, i will NOT follow him or accept his works, i will NOT work for him and spread his word either so again, tell me how we are going to be deceived when we or I know the false Christ comes first and i know i do NOT want to follow him and i know he is NOT YAHSHUA Jesus Christ? Help me understand this, THANK YOU JESSE
        oh also if there are 2 resurrections, and ones who died have already resurrected, the 2nd one is when Yahshua steps onto mount zion at the 7th trumpet right when we are all transformed into spiritual bodies???? So, how do the ELECT get out being KILLED if there are ONLY 7000 of them and they are taken away? what about us here alive in the flesh? What are we then, the remnant left here till TRUE CHRIST COMES?

  9. David says:

    In the 3rd trump it says a great star falls from heaven. In Luke 10:18 Jesus tells his disciples I beheld satan as lighting fall from heaven. In revelation 17:15 we learn the waters are the symbolic meaning for people. So back to the 3rd trump it says a great star falls and it’s call wormwood and the waters are made bitter because of it. Doesn’t this mean satans lies have came to earth to make people bitter such as the rapture? Spirutial lies to take people’s souls? Or have I missed something?

    • Jesse Norman says:

      Well “wormwood” in the Ukrainian language is “chernobyl”. The water in Revelation 17 are people, but more specifically people of the ten nations that make war with the Lamb. The star that falls and makes waters bitter could be symbolic, but I doubt it. The reason I say that is because the fifth trump is the fall of Satan and his angels onto earth. That was also described as a star that fell from heaven.

      • David says:

        Ok, another question is when the two witnesses are raised from the dead and 7,000 die that people were scared but then gave glory to god, could that be when the church of smyrna wakes up and stand trial? But also if two people are raised from the dead and go to heaven why would people follow satan claiming to be god still? Isn’t that a dead give away? And why when the vials are poured like the first one with the sores don’t they go to satan who they believe is god and ask him to heal them? I don’t see how it adds up people would have to be extremely dumb.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        The church of Smyrna will have had a firm footing by then. It will be after that where they will be imprisoned and stand trial.

        In one of my earlier comments to you, I pointed out how those of Satan used the miracles Jesus performed to accuse Him with. They never saw these things before, but evil will always find a way to hate good, no matter how incredible the works are. Look at the world today. Good and evil have been flipped in reverse roles. When a person takes the mark of the beast, then that is it for them.

        It doesn’t say the people don’t ask Satan to heal them, but Satan could never take away something God has brought forth unless God lets him.

  10. David says:

    I have a question as to who are the Kenites. I believe satan started his own seed in the garden and that Jesus taught this. But how are they separated as god said he would separated the two seeds and who are they and what are we to do about it, how are we to recognize them? Are they the ones setting up a one world political system and were supposed to be watchmen of this? Thank you again for everything.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      I recommend you read my post “The Definitive Work On Kenites, Cain, And The Seed Of Satan”. It has pretty much everything you’re asking about in there. Glad to help.

  11. David says:

    Why do people blaspheme god during the 4th and 5th vial if they think god himself is here on earth? From what you’ve explained to me before is it by the time the vials come around it’s to late and they already know they have been fooled. The vials are during the 5 months correct? I couldn’t find a teaching over revelation unless I missed it.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      Yes, it is too late for them. Once they take the mark of the beast, their futures are set. One interesting thing to point out is the Book of Life. Jesus talks about blotting names out of the book. In order to blot out the name, it must first be written in it. As for them blaspheming the name of God when they believe Satan is god and is on earth goes, this is after the mystery of God is finished. Revelation 10:7 says the sounding of the last trump removes this mystery. All will know who is God and that last five months will be the great trial for this creation, outside of those who took the mark. This is what Jesus spoke of when He said those who look to save their lives will lose them, but those who lose them for His name’s sake will find life everlasting. People will basically have to decide if they are willing to die for Him, even if that decision doesn’t necessarily come to them.

      • David says:

        At the 7th trump were all changed into spiritual bodies and are angels again. How are the vials poured out and the 5 month period after were all in the spiritual body? I’ve read revelation as if it jump to different times rather than in order maybe that’s a mistake.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        The seventh trump isn’t about being put into spiritual bodies. For there to be an hour of temptation, one must know who God is. On earth, the seventh trump is the realization that the Christian God is the one, true God. In heaven, the seventh trump is where people who are in spiritual bodies are put in incorruptible flesh bodies. This is what it means in 1st Thes. where it says “the dead in Christ shall rise first”. The dead in Christ are those who are faithful to God but are no longer living. The rising is becoming alive once again, and the incorruptible flesh means undecaying.

  12. David says:

    Are God’s elect able to sin against him? Is there an age of accountability like if your so young as 5 or 6 and u have little understanding are you unaccountable I remember murray saying something but I like to document things? The prophet Joel said that the vineyard would be stripped from the sons of man I believe the Hebrew manuscripts read sons of Adam does this mean Kenites will strip Gods word away such as on the news schools are taking out religious holidays and prayer time I seen in one school? Also in Joel it talks about speaking in tongues is this going to happen at the end by the elect against antichrist or will the church of Smyrna also speak in tongues? That’s the two biggest points I really got out of reading Joel. And when they do speak in tongues is what is written in book of Deuteronomy about Gods word dropping like the morning dew I’m the latter days? Do you believe in an eternal hell? If you do take the mark out of misunderstanding and repent before the 7th trump are you saved?

    • Jesse Norman says:

      God’s elect can sin against Him. If one sins, they sin against Him. They are not allowed to fail at their faith in Him and His Son, Jesus Christ. There definitely is an age of accountability, but it’s probably different from one person to the next. It’s probably somewhere between the mid to late teen years.

      From what I can tell, this saying about the vine in Joel is literal because this is also written by other prophets of the impending doom for Israel for their sins. The elect will speak in tongues, and so will those of the church of Smyrna who are brought to trial and open themselves to the Holy Spirit. The church of Philadelphia will not be put on trial, as the church of Smyrna will. Jesus did not mention anything about a trial for the church of Philadelphia, but said they will escape the time of temptation.

      There will be an eternal hell, which will be the lake of fire. The seventh trump is not the final thing that happens before His return, but removes the mystery of God, thus beginning the hour of temptation. Taking the mark might only come after the sounding of the last trump because the final division will have started. If there are those who take the mark beforehand, they are probably lost causes before this age even began. Some did such wicked things in the prior life that it has all but sealed their fate eternally.

  13. David says:

    Had someone today tell me the word rapture was in the bible in revelation but did a word search for it and could not find it. I explained it was false by 1st Thessalonians and 2nd Thessalonians and that he prolly means the word redeemed is used in chapter 14 of revelation and the only ones being gathered are the 7,000 elect at the 7th trump. My question is I’m not to sure what’s going on in chapter 14 can you please explain that chapter, is the 144,000 being gather back early?

    • Jesse Norman says:

      The 1440000 thousand Israelites aren’t gathered early. They do not feel the sting of the locusts, which would be temptation by the fallen angels during the hour of temptation. The difference between the 140000 and the church of Philadelphia is the church of Philadelphia will be kept from the time of temptation while the 1440000 will be here but not feel the temptation.

  14. David says:

    Yes I forgot there would be no need to seal them if they weren’t going to be here. Another question that has bothered me before revelation 13:8 talks about the people whose names are not written in the book of life follow satan. The way it reads the book was made and peoples names were put in it in the first earth age because it says foundation of the world. So this would mean God already knows who will follow because he created the book of life. Please explain it just seems it’s already made and if your not god’s elect you will fall because it’s done been made. Also not sure if this is written but i’ll ask anyways I know people will stand trial to witness against antichrist but if after the 7th trump the mystery is revealed then why do people witness against him before the 7th trump if he’s going to be exposed for who he is at the end anyways? Thank you.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      A couple of things: it doesn’t say all who followed Satan were not written in the Book of Life. There are those who were so wicked in the previous age that basically all hope is lost for them, yet God still wanted to use them. Secondly, in order to have your name blotted out of the Book of Life, it would have to already been in there. There will be those named in the book that will fall. This is hinted at when Jesus said that at the end, people who recognize Him as the Christ will be condemned.

      The Church of Philadelphia will warn people of many things to come, as well as the two witnesses when they arrive, but not all believe. The Church of Smyrna won’t be born on the day of the seventh trump. They will believe the Church of Philadelphia, but they won’t just testify against Satan, but will more speak of the Gospel. I believe this is what Jesus meant when He said that after the Gospel is spread all around the world, the end would then come.

      • Starlin k says:

        I am learning so much from way back in 2018. I posted here and have grown much since then, i still want to learn and will be reading these comments , wanted to say thank you for clearing up so much i was deceived by in the past

      • Jesse Norman says:

        You’re welcome. God bless you on the rest of your journey.

  15. David says:

    Have you ever gotten frustrated with trying to understand the bible before? I have learned from it and realize that everything in this life will pass but everything with Christ will be forever and this life is not something to get caught up in because you will lose it. I have a hard time understanding it, everyone has a different opion about everything in it. I feel that if your not one of God’s elect you won’t fully understand and I don’t understand why God would give us something that we’re not going to understand in the first place. I feel like giving up on reading it but I have such an understanding of importantance that when I do pass from this life I don’t want to stand before god ashamed but I just get so frustrated with it some times. Lastly me knowing the bible is hard to understand means that I know I failed him previoulsly. Does everyone get frustrated with trying to understand? Is there something I can do to better myself so that it does come easier?

    • Jesse Norman says:

      While all outside the elect have the spirit of slumber, all have the ability to receive a good amount of wisdom. Just because they have a ceiling of understanding, it doesn’t mean God won’t raise it, which is why it is written that God rewards those who diligently seek Him. If one is willing to ask themselves questions they don’t want to ask, and be willing to receive answers they won’t like, God will reward them with wisdom. Even the elect have the slumber of time. It just takes time.

      Efforts to discipline yourself by not sinning and fasting will not go unrewarded. Patience when thinking is very big. The Bible is written in a way where many of the answers to these questions are so easy that we pass by them in a flash with our thoughts. We overthink when searching for answers. Once finding the answer to a particular question, it usually is an answer so seemingly easy that you want to kick yourself, but such is the way of God.

      This is what I advise all to do. One, act like you’ve never heard of the Bible before. You don’t know the stories, people, and especially the lessons. This is by far the hardest thing to do, because you have to fully forsake all traditional and common knowledge teaching. Remove all lessons you’ve been taught by anyone. This is God’s word. Let Him explain Himself to you. Secondly, do not be afraid to ask yourself questions. Do not cheat yourself by stopping at answers that you like. If you cheat yourself by validating your preconceived notions, then you are cheating Him. When you find that answer that takes down all questoons, He will let you kmow by giving you an epiphany like you’ve never had before. Thirdly, use patience with your thoughts. I can’t stress that enough. Forth, study a KJV using a Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance. Lastly, be humble.

      I will pray He helps you, but you have to help yourself first.

      • starlin says:

        Hey Jesse,
        I have a strongs concordance but i can’t read the print, I try even with glasses and it is very hard for me to see, I get headaches and even asking our Father to help me be able to read it, It remains the same, My KJV of the bible is extra large print and i can read that without problems with my glasses, In the situation with me wanting to be able to read the Strongs, and not being able to, I have to look to someone that can read it and be able to help me understand it, I want to be able to see it but it is very hard for me, the one i have i purchased through the shepherds chapel and the text is very small even with glasses on. I am not old, it is after i went through aggressive chemotherapy that weakened my ability to see as good as i did before, I have been reading through these posts and they are really helping me with my understanding, I believe GOD has brought me hear to help me understand it better and YES, i do read for myself but some things are just very deep if you do not understand the order of the seals trumpets and viles, I feel sometimes guilty because of have a Strong’s but i can’t read the print, I don’t even have anyone to read it for me so here it sits.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        I would think there is an app where you can increase the letter size. There’s no reason to feel guilty if it’s something you cannot do.

  16. David says:

    In the book of Romans when God says that he set aside 7,000 that will not bow a knee to baal is baal satan? or is God talking about the false god baal that the queen of heaven was said to be married to? What exactly is baal used here for?

    • Jesse Norman says:

      I cannot get too far into this here, but just replace ‘Baal’ with “anyone other than God” and it will help you gain wisdom. Baal was the god the people of Israel (and around Israel) bowed to, so that was the name Elijah recognized. But if God was speaking specifically about only Baal, then how does He reserve someone that did not bow to Baal from His point of view? Where is God and how can He reserve to Himself anyone where He is?

  17. David says:

    The book of Ephesians is talking about God’s elect in chapter 1 and it uses we and us but in verse 13 he starts saying you. Is verse 13 talking about people that are not God’s elect? So if the ones that are not God’s elect trust and believe in Christ after they hear the truth (only way to truly hear the truth is to have it revealed to you thru the holy spirit) are sealed with the holy spirit does this mean they will be protected during the tribulation just like God’s elect that are sealed or is it just stating that even people outside of God’s elect still have salvation and a spot in heaven?

    • Jesse Norman says:

      A saint is one who will not go back on their faith. All of them were destined to receive grace, some more than others. Some fail, but depending on who it is, there are degrees as to how difficult it would be for one to fail. The elect cannot fail, but as revealed in Acts, there are those who receive the Holy Spirit that have failed. Ananias and Sapphira both received the Holy Spirit and failed miserably. They were not the elect, nor were they saints because they went back on their faith. The elect cannot fail. Being predestinated to receive grace is different than being the elect.

      Keeping what I wrote in mind, the specific answer to your question lies late in verse 13. Paul said that it was AFTER they believed that they were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise. After they believed with the grace given to them they became saints- not going to go back on their faith. Paul was telling them that once they truly believed, they became “us”. Hope that helps. May God bless you, my brother David.

  18. David says:

    Romans 11:9 is also talked about in Psalm 69:22. It seems it is taking about them bowing down to antichrist at the end of this age. In verse 10 it seems to make it clear that they always bow to him. Maybe the word their was supposed to be continue. The stumbling block here is it referring to as satan? Reason is because Christ is a stumbling stone for those who are either aethist or Jewish and do not believe Christ died on the cross yet so they will immediately accept antichrist? Just asking if I’m correct on if that’s what those verses are talking about. If though that is the explanation for Christ being a stumbling stone then those verses would be directly referred to the Jews (since they don’t think Christ has came yet) and not towards everyone else. I feel like it is toward everyone outside the elect though but have to go with scripture.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      This psalm was a prophecy from the point of view of Christ. This psalm spoke out against those who would have a hand in His death, even those who are in the book of life. This isn’t addressed to those who were fooled into wanting Him to die in lieu of Barabbas, because verse 23 talks about their eyes being darkened. Peter after the Spirit came into him and his fellow disciples spoke to those who chanted for Christ’s death, and told them there is forgiveness for them. They heard him, so their eyes were not darkened. This was addressed to those who directly caused His death.

  19. David says:

    Wanted to know about the remnant. My thinking is the remnant followed God in the first earth age just like the 7,000 elect. Either the 7,000 fought the hardest or volunteered to go last whatever the case may be. So the remnant are still the elect and are phrophets just put down through out time such as Isaiah. Wanting to know if this is correct and if so is there a remnant alive today? What will they do when the antichrist steps up, wouldn’t they also know the truth and be impossible to follow him as well?

    • Jesse Norman says:

      Boy, you are so close in understanding the 7000 remnant. The remnant are the last 7000 of the elect slated to live. That’s not what you’re close about. There is a reason that those 7000 were reserved for the final generation. You are very close. Keep going.

      • Starlin says:

        Jesse, its me again Starlin,
        the last here( election) alive are going to stand up against the anti christ because GOD knows they did it b4 and stood up for him so he knows he can trust them,
        The ones who followed satan in first earth age also have to be here alive to correct because they have to be here to go through the tribulation of Antichrist and see if they follow him AGAIN?????

      • Jesse Norman says:

        That’s not exactly true. Some who followed Satan did things to keep them off the list in the book of life, but they too have to live.

  20. David says:

    Something I have overlooked every time I read over verse 4 is that if it is talking about the first earth age, then baal was there during the first earth age. I’ve seen it replaced as satan worship before as a meaning but satan wasn’t called satan at that time. Baal is more than just a false pagan god and was a real thing or person during the first earth age. Baal seems to mean a lot of things and I have read very little of 1st and 2nd kings so I have yet to figure this out. Is it baal that everyone is blind to? Also could be very important for me do only the elect truly know what baal is? If so that would be an easy way of knowing 100 percent for sure who the elect are and aren’t. I know Jesus spoke in parables to everyone because it wasn’t for them to understand the mysteries of heaven but why? Why was the bible not more plainly written over kenites and first earth age? I could almost understand on the kenites because they were the scribes and if they knew who they were and were easily exposed we may not have a bible today.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      Baal was just a name people could identify with, as opposite to God, at the time. He was the opponent to God during the the days of Elijah, so Satan’s name can interchange with it. During the previous age, he was Helel before and during his fall.

  21. David says:

    Jesse hope all is well with you. I put something together today just thinking about the bible. The antichrist must deny Jesus and the fact he was the Messiah but yet he claims to be Jesus. So when the antichrist gets here if he denies Jesus but yet claims to be Jesus he must fulfill all the prophecies of Jesus. This is further proof the deadly wound will be to him (this could be why there’s so much blindness to Psalms 22) because he must fulfill it if he’s going to say Jesus has never came yet. He must resurrect from the dead, is this how you came to the conclusion he will be dead for 3 1/2 days I believe you said? This means the Antichrist will be trying to tear down everything Paul has ever written as well as the Gospels. There’s already people so willing to throw out what Paul has written but they’ll never look at an old map of the places he traveled and how hard that must have been to do. Zechariah 11:17 talks of an idol shepherd that takes a sword to the right arm and right eye. Is this the antichrist when he takes the deadly wound, will it be to the right side of his face? One thing I cannot clear up is will satan be a completely 3rd person or when the beast (antichrist) dies satan reincarnates inside the flesh body of the antichrist? I’m going to assume the way it’s written satan will put his spirit/soul inside the antichrist and the antichrist’s soul leaves that flesh body and it goes to it’s designated place awaiting the lake of fire. Just to add he may not claim to be Jesus until the last 3 1/2 years of tribulation. Could you explain the difference between our spirit and souls? That may help me understand the differences but yet same person when it comes to God and Jesus as well as satan and baal. I still haven’t figured everything out yet about baal. It’s interesting if all Hebrew words ending in im are plural then satan being a cherubim is plural. Anyways I appreciate this website and before I found it I almost got so frustrated I thought about becoming an atheist even though I knew it wasn’t right. I haven’t read the whole bible yet but I do reread a lot of stuff over and I’m constantly noticing things I prior missed.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      I’m doing okay. Thanks for your concern. I will email you soon. Satan, really the Antichrist, doesn’t necessarily admit he’s Jesus, just the Christ.Interesting thing in the Quran, the prophet Jesus (Islam portrays Jesus to be a prophet, not the Christ) returns to earth to help kill those who believe He is the Son of God. Islam will be used to have its believers follow the Antichrist to do his bidding. The Antichrist will be risen sometime on the third day.

      The idol shepherd is a teacher who abandons his flock or betrays the faith. The Bible will speak of the right side of things because most people are right-handed, therefore right side dominant.

      You’re right. People are already dismissing the great Apostle Paul’s epistles, because that is one of the few tools available to pull Christians towards him. It’s not just his perilous travels, but also his beatings, imprisonment, shipwrecks, and threats of death. Where would we be without Paul? He was preappointed to be the apostle to the Gentiles to bring the Gospel to people like you and me millennia later. To dismiss Paul, or any other prophet is to dismiss Christ because Christ sent them.

      Satan will not take over the flesh of the Antichrist, but will have his own flesh. I know what I have written in the past, but I was wrong. I will correct it soon. I will get to the other comments in a bit. I thank you for the kind words. God lead you to me. He has great hope for you. Take care.

      • Starlin says:

        again, pastor Murrey promised if you know the fake comes first that we all will be okay. He taught us that Satan is the anti Christ, the dragon and the son of perdition, the serpent, apollyon, the morning star, Lucifer, He taught that SATAN comes HERE to EARTH defacto, and pretends to be Christ in the flesh, and the whole world whores after him. He also stated that we do not need to prepare for it , for if we know and LOVE GOD he WILL TAKE CARE OF US, he also stated all who know false one comes before the fake one, will be delivered up to death aka SATAN and they can’t harm a hair on our heads, so when does SATAN come to EARTH at 6th trumpet and why is that person asking you if he lays dead in the street for and half days? I was NEVER taught that SATAN DIES here on earth im CONFUSED WORSE NOW……Please EMAIL ME.

      • Jesse Norman says:

        Satan is not the Antichrist. The Antichrist is a human being, otherwise known as the beast. Revelation 20:10 clearly states that the beast and Satan are two different entities. Satan never dies. The Antichrist does. Satan brings him back and the world will marvel. The human Antichrist will say he’s Christ and Satan is God. The two witnesses will lay in the street. Satan can’t die because he’s in impenetrable flesh, but he will be damned forever.

  22. Klara says:

    Hi Jesse, english is not my native language, sorry in advance if I make some mistakes 🙂 there is no need in bothering you, I will just say that I 101% know since I was created that I was destined for something different – my mother and father couldn’t have children so the preach told my mother that she has to climb one sacred mountain and God will bless her with a child and then she got pregnant with me and I was born on July 7 1997 at 7AM – lucky number my trademark yass.! I am a bit of maladjusted in this satanic world but God’ ve never let me from Him and faith in Him, like I don’t have completely free will and I’m fine with that blessing.. He is the only truth in my chaotic life that I can rely to 24/7 ❤ anyway, He sent me on this page today because I was so angry for not having answers on some questions and I really like your convincing theory…. which literature do you reccomend me for beggining? That contains everything about elects and historical background (before this world etc.)? God bless you.

  23. David says:

    In Daniel chapter 10:13 why do you think it would take the angel 3 weeks to reach Daniel? It also says he had to fight the prince of Persia to get to Daniel. Maybe this is in reference to Matthew 18:18 (about the prince of Persia part) both Heaven and earth are tied together a lot more than what people think. I cannot understand why an angel would have difficulty reaching out to someone especially for 3 weeks. I figured it would be instant.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      Maybe it wasn’t a physical contention, which it probably wasn’t. The angel probably had to wait out a process that took that long. Sorry for not getting to your comments sooner. Still having difficulty looking at comments. WP had it to where I can just check in and click on comments, but no more, at least as I can see. My tv is on permanent zoom so some of the picture is cut off.

  24. David says:

    When the two witnesses get here will people be able to go and physically be able to see them and talk to them even if they are not of the elect? Elijah said that he was the only prophet that remained. Even after Obadiah told Elijah how he hid prophets in caves when Jezebel was killing prophets. Now they may have not been of the elect and that’s why Elijah said he was the last one to remain but surely Elisha was of the elect and yet Elijah didn’t recognize him as one. They used to pass down anointing one elect prophet to another. I wonder if one of the elect is not considered a prophet until they are anointed and considering that line doesn’t exist anymore to pass down from one to another, do you think the two witnesses will anoint all 7,000 elect which will fully awaken them to full knowledge and they will no longer go by faith? I believe in Acts 4:33 the people there no longer went by faith but fully knew for a fact who Jesus truly was.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      Yes, people will be able to talk to them. The two witnesses will probably have more interaction with the wicked than with anyone else. Elijah was lamenting and felt alone, but it didn’t mean he was the last one alive. I have said things to God out of left field only to have Him find the answer for me immediately after. Perhaps God had him say that just so God could tell him there are more of the elect He has held back for the latter days. I have no doubts He put it in Peter to deny being with Jesus, just to get him to lament denying Jesus and motivate Peter for the rest of his life. More importantly, to continue to live. If Peter didn’t deny Jesus, he would have been executed also. As far as the anointing goes, we shall see.

  25. David says:

    In Ephesians 1:12 I believe Paul is speaking of the elect when he says we first trusted in Jesus. Along with not bowing to Satan in the first age they also simply trusted in Jesus so they are automatically Jesus’ children, everyone else must learn from the gospel. I think I’m correct on this but it leads me to when Abraham was going to sacrifice his son which I’m good with but when the Angel of the Lord came He said now I know that you fear God. Why didn’t God know already that Abraham loved God because surely he was one of the elect and had his faith fully accepted by that point? It does repeat twice God was pleased Abraham didn’t withhold his ‘only’ son, perhaps God was just pleased someone out of our creation was willing not to withhold his only son from God as God was going to do for us? Still why did Abraham have to prove his faith twice?

  26. David says:

    Hey did my comment get moved?

  27. David says:

    Yes I seen the comments after I posted this last one. For some reason they disappeared on my end a few days ago and I wasn’t sure if you had commented back and it got moved. Wasn’t trying to rush you with your eyes.

  28. David says:

    Why did Jesus only come for the Jews at first, as He told the woman in Matthew 15:24 and push Gentiles away? Jesus said that it is written we are Gods. In Psalms 82 it shows God standing in a congregation of “mighty”. God is telling them they will die like men and fall like one of the Princes. If God is talking to them before they die, in a congregation with Him, calling them mighty, are these God’s elect He is talking to here in this age before they were put into the flesh explaining to them what’s before them and the Prince here in verse 7 is this Jesus? Your thoughts on this on why Jesus said they were God’s?

    • Jesse Norman says:

      No, He’s talking to those who rule the earth who commit evil. Not just kings either. The elect would not walk in darkness.

      Jesus came for the Jews. Paul was to bring the gospel to the Gentiles. Jesus was to try to bring the Jews to Him because they were the chosen nation. They came first.

  29. David says:

    Why does He call them God’s though? Another thing concerning the election of the Jews. Esau was hated for things he did in the previous age but yet by blood he cannot be a kenite since Abraham couldn’t have been. Paul did say that the seed would be called out of Isaac. So does that mean only a select few Jews are the ‘elect’ and ‘chosen’ and not all of them are? I used to think all Jews were the elect. Maybe that’s why there will only be 144,000 chosen Jews at the end of this age and not all them. At some point, maybe it will take halfway through tribulation, the true Jews will wake up at the abomination of desolation. This would cause an instant divide between Jews and kenites I feel overnite. If not every Jew is chosen and elect then those Jews that are not of election will not wake up either, greatly out numbering the elect Jews. If this is correct. Also concerning Esau, if God hated him then does He hate everyone outside the elect because of their previous actions? Maybe Esau wasn’t in the book of life he messed up so badly and it’s just those people God hates.

    • Jesse Norman says:

      If I remember right, the word “hated” wasn’t exactly right. I think it was supposed to be “infuriated”. Some Jews are evil. Not all of a certain nation would be chosen to be good. Remember Jacob’s prophecy of the tribe of Dan. Sorry it took me so long to reply. Have had a lot of things going on.

  30. David says:

    What is the parable of the fig tree? With the Coronavirus if it did get worse and people were quarantined they would get behind on bills, jobs ect. After they lost things they had financed they would be begging for government help such as Socialism. I think the Coronavirus will pass and not be that bad but it shows how fragile and connected our society is. Myself included have loans. If Socialism is the end time one world government, it would be an easy way to bring it about and have people begging for it at the same time. At some point at the end of tribulation or the 5 months a person may have to absolutely give up everything they know and take as normal life to not be part of the system. Maybe stepping away from everything is a great sign of faith that’s purposed. Are all the elect reincarnated such as Elijah was? Or was this a one time thing for a specific purpose? Hope things are getting better.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s